Thursday, September 1, 2011

Comet Elenin: Self Destructed as foreseen in Torah Codes???

Apparently Comet Elenin has self-destructed, which sounds like something I would do on a bad day.... although I'm not convinced it's out of the picture yet.   


Thank you to Miguel Quaresma Brandão of Portugal for sending the Bible Codes below.

Comet Elenin Self-Destructs. But how we can explain the great coincidences between the Comet Elenin and the movie Deep Impact, that was produced some years ago?

And, with this fact, all the speculations about the comet Elenin will stay without reason.

Just as it is encoded in the Bible Codes from the Michael Drosnin table of 1997.  

25 comments:

Leah said...

How truly wild! Poof, just like that! come to think of it: Wouldn't that be good if this happened to our enemies?

joshwaxman said...

this is a pretty silly Bible code. it is based on taking plain text.

"earth annihilated"? no, it just says כל הארץ in one fairly distant pasuk. 'all the earth', not earth destroyed.

and reversed, he takes Ashterot beEdrei'i, takes a few letters, and makes strange, uncommon Hebrew words יערד אבתר. I could translate that as 'it will drive out; I will dissect'. Not necessarily anything to do with the comet.

Why not take any other random word or phrase in this giant matrix, then, and associate it with the comet. צבאו, his army. So the comet will land on his army.

בנגב -- it will land in the Negev of Eretz Yisrael.

ללכת אחרי אלהים אחרים, following after other deities. Since they worshiped the zodiac, it means that the comet will follow the constellations.

In terms of the year, he could have taken תשע and had it two years ago. There is a תתה and a תשה, and that is just what is visible.

Drosnin is not a prophet. He was someone who deluded himself into thinking he could predict the future, or even possible eventualities. But he only found those things he was looking for, unaware that if one REALLY looked, one could find any and every message.

Also, he spells כוכב in כוכב שביט, comet, without the vav, as ככב. This is highly irregular. We would not write this in modern Hebrew. And it is not spelled like that **anywhere** in Tanach, or in Bavli, or Yerushalmi, or in later Rabbinic writing. The whole thing is forced.

I don't believe in Torah codes, but the typical Torah code I don't believe in is much, much, better than this stuff...

Devorah said...

Thanks, because I wouldn't have a clue about any of it.

[quote] I don't believe in Torah codes, but the typical Torah code I don't believe in is much, much, better than this stuff... [unquote]

See, every cloud has a silver lining.

Leah said...

Hmmmmm....so, I'ss wait for Rabbi Glazerson's take on it if it surfaces.....

Devorah said...

Response from Rabbi Glazerson:

BH

CONCERNING THE COMMENTS OF JOSH WAXMAN TO DROSNIN TABLE

THERE ARE SOME POINTS THAT HE IS RIGHT .BUT SOME OF THEM ARE VERY SILLY AND STUPID.

FOR EXAMPLE WHEN HE SAYS THAT DROSNIN COULD TAKE DATES LIKE
תשע תתה תשה
THOSE ARE VERY EASY TO FIND AS THEY ARE ONLY THREE LETTERS, AND THEY THEY ARE VERY COMMON LETTERS. AND APPEAR IN THE TORAH
THOUSANDS TIME, WHILE THE DATE תשעב APPEARS LETTER AFTER LETTER
HERE, WHICH APPEAR IN THE WHOLE TORAH ONLY FOUR TIMES... THEREFORE ITS APPEARANCE HERE NEXT
TO THE SKIP ככב שביט IS VERY SIGNIFICANT.
CONCERNING HIS COMMENT ABOUT ככב
WITHOUT THE LETTER VAV,'THIS IS
BECAUSE HE LACKS KNOWLEDGE ABOUT WHAT ARE TORAH CODES.
TORAH CODE ARE PART OF KABBALAH - (FOR THIS HE SHOULD STUDY
PROPERLY THE WEBSITE "TORAH CODE US"
IT IS KNOWN IN KABALLAH MAINLY IN THE HAR"I HAKADOSH THE LETTERS VAV
AND YUD ARE NOT CONSIDERED AS THEY SERVE ONLY FOR THE SOUND OF THE WORD.
I CAN GIVE MANY EXAMPLES FOR IT. I WILL GIVE ONE. WHEN THE TORAH SPEAKS ABOUT THE SPIES WHO WENT
IN THE DAYS OF ענבים SAYS THE ARI HAKADOSH SAYS THAT THE LETTER BEFORE THE LETTERS ענבים IN
THE ALEPH BEIT, ARE THE LETTERS OF THE EVIL FORCE סמאל , IGNORING THE LETTER YUD IN THE WORD ענבים ..
AS כוכב שביט IN ONE ELS DOES NOT APPEAR IN THE TORAH. IS NOTHING WRONG TO TAKE ככב שביט WITHOUT THE LETTER VAV, AND SO IT APPEARS ONLY ONCE IN THE WHOLE TORAH. AND ITS APPEARANCE WITH THE YEAR
תשעב LETTER AFTER LETTER, IS VERY SIGNIFICANT.

CONCERNING HIS REMARK ABOUT THE INTERPRETATION OF WORDS AS
DROSNIN BRINGS HE IS RIGHT. BUT IT IS ONLY A SMALL POINT AS THE MAIN TABLE SHOWS THE PHENOMENON OF COMET IN THE YEAR תשעב

I WILL RECOMMEND TO MR WAXMAN THAT HE GO PROPERLY THROUGH THE WEBSITE OF PROFESSOR HARALICK AND AS OTHER SCIENTISTS WHO DID IT, WILL APPRECIATE TORAH CODE.

N.B. I WILL SEND YOU HERE THE TABLE WHICH DROSNIN FOUND BUT WITH MORE AND OTHER WORDS
IN THIS TABLE YOU HAVE THE NAME OF THE NIBIRU נבירו [NIBIRU] PARALLEL TO ככב
>שביט (PARALLEL APPEARANCE IS SIGNIFICANT IN TABLESׂׂ)
IN THE TABLE THERE IS THE NAME אלנין - ELENIN AND NEXT TO IT THE לכליה "TO BE FINISHED"
ALSO THE WORD שבור ישבר BROKE AND WILL BREAK

ALL THE BEST
GLAZERSON

Leah said...

Thanks, Devorah. That was quick!
Pretty cool. The codes always fascinate me. Have you ever had teh chance to go to a "Discovery Seminar?"

Devorah said...

From your mouth to the Rabbi's ears Leah :)

What is a Discovery Seminar?

Anonymous said...

it is known that Bible Codes are relieved in precise time coordinate and other dates would be inapplicable toward some particular matrix. The date shown is yet to be.

Anonymous said...

Devorah, Aish Hatorah presents these Discovery Seminars in many cities probably a few times a year. I attended one 20 years ago and it was awe inspiring.! This was before the Torah Codes as we know them today. The prestation was in Toronto and I took a friend who was interested in connecting with her Jewishness and discovering Torah and our history. The seminar also introduced many proofs and prophesies that appeared in the Torah but came much later in time. I can't remember it clearly now, but I know that I, who had the zechus to be Torah educated was mezmorized by the content and talked about the experience for years. If they are anything like they were then, it is so worth the time.

Devorah said...

ok thanks.....Discovery Seminars haven't made it to Australia yet - and probably not likely to either.

Leah said...

Yes, Anonymous is correct, it is wonderful and awe inspiring. Rabbi Motti Berger was one who gave the seminar before. Maybe it is something that is on video online? That would be cool. I have a sefer, "Computorah." Much of the material was used from Discovery in this sefer and it will amaze you if you have a chance to get this sefer.
Have a beautiful Shabbos, Devorah.
Your website is very indepth and the other nice thing is that when I pass the website info to others I am able to tell them that you include multiple sources from many sects/inyanim.
You truly live the lesson from Pikei Avos: Who is wise? He /She who listens to everyone."

Anonymous said...

Shalom?

You do realize that when Joseph,passed the House of Israel on to Moses,
(see the Death of Joseph,,,)
it was 1589 b.c,,or about 3600 years ago,,
(something about generations,,)
Comet Elin, (or cx2010),
orbit is 3600 years.
just in case u didnt know.

joshwaxman said...

"HE SHOULD STUDY PROPERLY THE WEBSITE "TORAH CODE US""

You can tell rabbi glazerson that I have studied it properly, and i think it is silly; and that what he engages in is NOT Torah, nor kabbalah. it is Bibliomancy. and it is Bibliomancy in predicting absolute nonsense.

the kabbalah is certainly not involved in predicting the star Nabiru (kochav again spelled chaser), in 5774, as Rabbi Glazerson has discovered (see here). there is no such thing as Nabiru. This is what a bunch of certifiably insane people believe in.

If the Torah codes can predict such obvious nonsense and insanity so 'scientifically', then it is a good proof by contradiction that there is something flawed in the scientific analysis.

choosing chaser spellings may be kvetchable based on 'kabbalah', but what it really is is the 'wiggle room' that Bible code critics speak about.

He is right about the three letters being much easier to find. I've indeed discussed this flaw in other Torah codes in the past. I was working with what was visible in the matrix and easy for me to find, in order to give examples. While תשעב might appear here letter after letter, I don't find a compelling reason that that must be the code to find, and that it MUST be meaningful, from a hashkafic perspective. And I would like him to search for תשעג, תשנד, etc., and ALL such 4-letter years in the proximity, and find out if they occur with a low ELS in this context, and run the probabilities on each of those, instead of just finding the one.

ככב שביט spelled chaser indeed occurs only once, with an *enormous* skip of 20093 -- that is twenty-thousand ninety three. Do you know how much text you can find in that proximity?

I did a search. Just a bit down, equivalent to Drosnin's כל הארץ, one finds תשנה. That is 5755, letter after letter. Or, taking the same skip as 'comet', such that they are aligned, התשצו, which is 5-796. Back to letter after letter, there is תשמו, 5746. This is from just a quick eyeballing of the data, now that I did the search and so can scroll a bit farther to the side. Before, I was constrained by Drosnin's smaller window, but this was what I was getting at. Was there an apocalyptic comet in 5746?

And it is rabbi waxman (rather than mr. waxman), just as much as it is rabbi glazerson.

Pinlight said...

I have been working with Rabbi Glazerson, Professor Eliyahu Rips and Prof. Robert Haralick for the past five years in producing a film about the Torah Codes in reference to the year 2012. These men are the most knowledgeable in the world on the subject, and the research never stops. By research, I don't mean just finding new Codes, but continuing to try and understand what they mean and how to find more clues to what is obviously encoded in the Torah. There are so many powerful examples.

There is without a doubt a Code in the Torah, and to say differently shows a closed mind and lack of even a modicum of research. Is it Supernatural? Perhaps. Can it be proven scientifically? Absolutely. Do we totally understand it? No. Drosnin's book brought the phenomena to the world in 1997, and in his subsequent books, but the work goes on by these professors and rabbis in an ernest way and many startling codes have been found.

Rabbi Glazerson is a world expert in ancient Hebrew, has written some 27 books, and works daily in searching the Torah. His insights are incredibly valuable to the ongoing research. Tables are now compared to up to 1 million other random texts by linking hundreds of computers to help with the computations. That statistical work is done by Prof. Haralick in New York. No wild claims are ever made by prof. Haralick, and key words have to be a priori.

While Glazerson's singular work on the Torah is valuable, Prof. Rips -- (what many credit as the discoverer of the Codes in the modern era, after Weissmandl's discovery of ELS in the 50's) is constantly exploring new ways of searching the Torah. There are others who were also involved in that discovery, Witztum and Rosenberg, who were instrumental in the design of the software at the time and whose collaboration with Rips made it possible.

So to me, the only arguments that make sense on this topic should show some respect to these men who have made this their life's calling and who have taken much criticism over the years by others that don't understand what is really going on with the Torah Codes.

joshwaxman said...

sorry, i disagree.

and i **have** done some research into the subject matter.

this is not Torah. it is not kabbalah. it is nonsense. a kabbalist doing this might be doing kabbalah, just as a kabbalist doing gematria might be doing kabbalah. (the Gra can select a valid gematria from an invalid one.) but a novice non-kabbalist doing this is just making silly connections based on his ignorance and delusions.

"Rabbi Glazerson is a world expert in ancient Hebrew"
Wow. In what way, more than, say, me? And what qualifies you to say that he is an expert?

I've seen some of Rabbi Glazerson's dubious and laughable claims about the links to the Mayans. It is silliness.

Tidbits of Torah said...

I learned somewhere that when a person feels his "prestige" has been attacked or has been "insulted" he should remain silent and a person that has been witness to it should ask for a brocha.

Somebody help me remember where I read this from.

On a side note: Josh or rather Rabbi Waxman, I did not know you had this title as your parshablog states to contact only joshwaxman - perhaps I overlooked your title on your website sometime back when I visited it. Perhaps Rabbi Glazerson also did not know you had this title.

Robert Haralick said...

I usually try to stay out of Torah code arguments. But perhaps a few words can be said that
might be useful. with regard to the arguments presented by the esteemed Rabbi Joshua Waxman of Ohr Hadash.

(1) Speaking about Rabbi Glazerson, he argues

“he spells כוכב in כוכב שביט, comet, without the vav, as ככב. This is highly irregular. We would not write this in modern Hebrew. And it is not spelled like that **anywhere** in Tanach, or in Bavli, or Yerushalmi, or in later Rabbinic writing. The whole thing is forced.”

There are many instances where the Torah spells a word defectively without a vav and indeed
in Kabbalistic work, it is not unusual to find a word spelled without a vav or without a yod.
Just as Rabbi Glazerson has said. But there is something deeper here. Rabbi Waxman’s argument
has some unstated assumptions: that the spelling of a keyword ought to be spelled as it is written
in modern Hebrew or as spelled in the Tanach, or in the Talmud. Clearly this is an assumption
that steers clear of Kabbalah. But the Kabbalists regard Torah codes as part of Kabbalah and
from this domain the defective spelling is not unusual and indeed the protocol we follow explicitly allows for such defective spelling.

(2)Regarding choice of the year keyword Rabbi Waxman states:

“In terms of the year, he could have taken תשע and had it two years ago. There is a תתה and a תשה, and that is just what is visible.”

“Why not take any other random word or phrase in this giant matrix, then, and associate it with the comet. צבאו, his army. So the comet will land on his army.”

This argument has two problems. The first problem is that Rabbi Waxman makes the assumption that if an interesting date appears in a Torah code table, it is the only date that appears there.
Thus when Rabbi Waxman finds other years than the year תשעב, in the table he argues in effect that the other years that are there are just as interesting and ought to have a just as interesting interpretation. But that is not how the Torah code tables work. In any Torah code table, there
are many ELSs of key words that have nothing to do with the topic of the table, including
irrelevant months and years. What is important about the the key words is that they be chosen
a priori and that is all that is statistically relevant. Key words that are not chosen have no statistical relevance to any Torah code table.

The second problem with Rabbi Waxman’s argument is that if an irrelevant key word has
an ELS in the table, one could have chosen it and if one did not then why not? Now there
has been major public discussions in many different forums regarding Elenin and/or Nabiru.
The year that has been associated with the majority of these discussions is התשעב. That makes this year a suitable and reasonable choice for an a priori key word.

Rabbi Waxman remarks:

“the kabbalah is certainly not involved in predicting the star Nabiru (kochav again spelled chaser), in 5774, as Rabbi Glazerson has discovered (see here). there is no such thing as Nabiru. This is what a bunch of certifiably insane people believe in.”

This remark assumes that the topic of a Torah code table is constrained to be about an event that is real and there is only one interpretation about what that real event is. I do not know whether the Nabiru event is real. From the point of the table, what only matters is that in fact there is a real event in which people are talking about the Nabiru event and that discussion is related to the year התשעב. So in fact the table can be interpreted to be about a real event, that real event being the discussion of Nabiru and 2012, which at least in part of the year 2012 corresponds to the year התשעב.

joshwaxman said...

I am not including my basic theologically-based objections to the Torah codes, but rather addressing points here.

"What is important about the the key words is that they be chosen a priori and that is all that is statistically relevant. Key words that are not chosen have no statistical relevance to any Torah code table."

Really? Did the **kabbalists** who engaged in Torah codes (or rather, their variant) chose these a priori? If not, how can you claim a basis in kabbalah, if you are excluding as valid every Torah code created by authentic kabbalists?


"are many ELSs of key words that have nothing to do with the topic of the table, including
irrelevant months and years"


really? so if, let us say, because the letters tav and shin are incredibly common in Biblical Hebrew, and EVERY YEAR and MONTH were encoded in a given Torah code, but only a specific year were searched for, then that only that year searched for is significant?

Variants like בהתשעב, rather than just תשעב, are searched for to give longer words and thus more apparent significance. I would bet that התשעב and תשעב were also searched for.

This remark assumes that the topic of a Torah code table is constrained to be about an event that is real
What we have, then, is a dispute between you are Rabbi Glazerson about the relevance of the codes. He "proved" that Nir Ben Artzi was a prophet because Ben Artzi appeared together with "chozeh" (a wiggle-room variant of navi), not bothering to look for words like "shakran". But all this would prove is that people were **saying** this about Nir Ben Artzi.

"I do not know whether the Nabiru event is real."
This is the first thing I read about the Nabiru event, from Wikipedia:

The idea was first put forward in 1995 by Nancy Lieder, founder of the website ZetaTalk. Lieder describes herself as a contactee with the ability to receive messages from extra-terrestrials from the Zeta Reticuli star system through an implant in her brain. She states that she was chosen to warn mankind that the object would sweep through the inner Solar System in May 2003 (though that date was later abandoned) causing Earth to undergo a pole shift that would destroy most of humanity.

Are you really telling me with a straight face that you don't know whether this is real, or rather that this woman should be locked up in a mental asylum?!

Why, then, would you express such a reserved opinion about it?

This is silliness, rather than Torah.

joshwaxman said...

"that the spelling of a keyword ought to be spelled as it is written in modern Hebrew or as spelled in the Tanach, or in the Talmud"
Yes. Because otherwise, what is happening is the wiggle room problem. Find every variant in both spelling and synonym, and present only the ones which work. I would bet that כוכב שביט spelled plene was first searched for. Only when this was not found to exist anywhere in the Torah were variants tried. How about שביט without the vav? How about כוכבא דשביט, as it appears in the gemara? How about we look for the English spelling of it? such as קומיט and קמית?

"This remark assumes that the topic of a Torah code table is constrained to be about an event that is real and there is only one interpretation about what that real event is."
Yes. So it can be a real event; an event people are talking about; or, merely a "possibility".

"in Kabbalistic work, it is not unusual to find a word spelled without a vav or without a yod"
right. they darshen in interesting ways. i eagerly await the Torah codes based on Atbash and Albam spellings, since kabbalists use these encodings as well.

I'll close by saying that you obviously are a great expert at statistics, much more than I am. I certainly cannot debunk you on mathematical grounds. But at the end of the day, there is proof by contradiction. If someone showed me mathematical proof that I am the Pope, I could conclude that the original assumption (that 0=1) was incorrect.

The true disproof, IMHO, of Torah codes, lies in Minchas Shai and a gemara in Kiddushin. But also, when the predictions being made by the Torah codes reach the level of clear raving lunacy, this would also be an effective disproof.

joshwaxman said...

"presented by the esteemed Rabbi Joshua Waxman of Ohr Hadash"

Oops! I better clarify this. I am not the same as that Rabbi Joshua Waxman. We just have the same name.

Kol Tuv,
Josh

john berg said...

Torah codes are very real bec we know that everything is written in the torah wether through gematriot or skips there is no coincidence but an interesting point "what fear made a crown for her head humblness made soles for her feet" just putting it out there. and everybody prefers a humble person.

joshwaxman said...

john berg:
even assuming the kabbalistic idea that everything is encoded in the Torah, that does not mean that any and every method is a valid means of discovering it.

via gematria, people have said that the Internet causes cancer.

Cancer, which is סרטן , equals 319
Internet, אנטרנט (but spelled without the yud) = 319

But via the same token, lettuce causes autism, because both = 73. see here. Everything true might be encoded in Torah, but that does not mean that everything one can find an encoding for in Torah is true.

everyone might prefer a humble person, but that does not mean that one should be humble and not protest when people are putting forth silliness as Torah miSinai.

Dr Haralick:
Two more point (among others I choose not to raise right now). (1) You wrote:
So in fact the table can be interpreted to be about a real event, that real event being the discussion of Nabiru and 2012, which at least in part of the year 2012 corresponds to the year התשעב.

But that is not the Torah code Rabbi Glazerson discovered. He discovered a link to תשעד, that is, 5774, NOT תשעב, which is 5772. Have people really been discussing Nibiru in 2013 and 2014?! Or, more likely, did Rabbi Glazerson fail to find a(n a priori) link between kochav nibiri (with the first vav of Kochav missing and the first yud of Nibiru missing) in close enough proximity, and then found one for two years later. See here, scrolling down to the bottom, for the image.

I understand that you and Rabbi Glazerson are two different people. But I am actually targeting several people. I knew about the a priori-ness, but that does not speak to the general folks who indulge in/believe in Torah codes, and this is a valid point for them. Rabbi Glazerson appears to use a different methodology than you, in terms of treatment of the predictive nature, as well as in mucking around to discover new, undiscussed facts. If so, it is not really 'fair' to take my points, which are very relevant to a discussion with Rabbi Glazerson, and presenting a refutation according to your methodology.

(2) While one might create a theology / theory in which real, potential, and discussed false events are all fair game, it has the effect of rendering the theory unfalsifiable based on false predictions. That feels to me someone unscientific and convenient.

Devorah said...

Too big for the comments section, there is a response here: Validating the Torah Codes

John berg said...

Josh waxman:
The pirkei avot itself says that gematriot are tne parparot of the torah true not all gematriot are correct however alot are as harav shakalov himself writes in kol hator that the gra was a champion of gematriot and can find a person anywhere in the torah the ramban used gematriot the ari the rashash even rav chaim kanaviskey has a book on gematriot the list can go on and includes all great rabbais from sephardis mizrahi and chassisdic background also lithuanian not only that the kabbalistic world and torah relies heavily on gematria and is torah codes are false and silly as you suggest then how is everything written in the torah? how is rabins death in there? how is the twin towers in there?
i once heard a shiur from rav orlovsky he said three kinds of people 1.95% dont care 2. 3% just want to prove their pint and3. 2% actually reasearch to find the truth everything is written in torah including all pssibilities we can just marvel at the fact that its there after it happens
Divrei chachamin bnchat nishmaim
lhitraot
JB

yakov said...

video with profesor rips and harold gans on bible codes
http://pinlight.com/tor1.htm