Thursday, October 27, 2011

Nir ben Artzi - Codes in English

A special video from Rabbi Glazerson for Shirat Devorah readers - esp. Josh :) : Nir ben Artzi in Torah Codes - in English - with clarification regarding the word "chozeh" and more.


Anonymous said...

If I understand correctly, everyone has a portion in the Torah. Everyone, even you and me. NBA is no exception. We just have to look for it. So, it doesn\'t make any difference if one character is publicized more than others.

joshwaxman said...

I wrote a long comment, but it disappeared, I think.

Is Rabbi Glazerson willing to engage in a real back and forth in the comment section, instead of letting proxies battle it out and then nitpicking on inaccuracies? I have a few pointed questions that I would like to have him answer.

joshwaxman said...

OK, since this went through and the other did not, I guess it was lost. I will try to recreate.

Yes, I was aware of the Chozeh of Lublin. But, as I've argued in the past, NBA is pretending not to act as a prophet as he acts as a prophet, by telling people what Hashem wants and what Hashem's plan is. This is the same bovine excrement game played by the autistics. And people DO treat him as a prophet. At the very *least*, chozeh is interpretable in both ways, and this was subjective from Rabbi Glazerson, to claim that in the Torah Code it meant psychic (or 'non-prophet who knows the future') rather than prophet.

And thanks for the clarification as to the methodology. I still think that it is nonsense and there is a mathematical trick, but my objections would be somewhat different.

For now, I have selected four simple questions which I would like Rabbi Glazerson to answer.

1. Does he agree or disagree with Dr. Haralick that Torah Codes can indicate simply what people are saying, rather than what is true?

2. Did he search for negative words within this matrix, such as the various Hebrew equivalents of con-artist, cult-leader, or liar, or ignoramus, as has been alleged by much greater rabbanim than Rabbi Glazerson? Or did he approach it with the attitude that NBA was great, and only look for those terms?

3. What were all the terms (and variants of terms) he looked for -- both those which appeared and those which did not appear?

4. Was he aware of the opposition of various prominent rabbanim to NBA, such as Rav Ovadiah Yosef, Rav Yosef Kapach, and Rav Shlomo Amar, prior to weighing in in his first Hebrew video? Was he aware of the allegations against NBA?

At any rate, at the end of the day, Rabbi Glazerson is wrong on the metzius (reality). A straightforward analysis of NBA's scattered and ambiguous 'predictions' reveals just how he does it. I could do the exact same thing, as I have explained in the past. And if authentic Torah Codes prove NBA to be real, then this is just as much a proof (by contradiction) that Torah codes are fake as the ridiculous Nibiru / Planet X / apocalypse in 2013 Torah code put forth by Rabbi Glazerson.

I look forward to hearing Rabbi Glazerson's response (hopefully in the comment thread) to my four simple questions.


Devorah said...

Just to clarify re Nibiru/Elenin: the Codes said it would disintegrate, and it has: see Last of Elenin

joshwaxman said...

Whose Code? Rabbi Glazerson or Michael Drosnin? I think you mean Drosnin's. As even Rabbi Glazerson agreed (back then), Drosnin's interpretation of those words is quite a bit forced.

I was referring to other code(s), put forth by Rabbi Glazerson. It is not 'Nibiru' if there is not a planetary collision -- if it is just another comet that happens to pass near earth, as many comets do.

glazerson said...

I agree with joshwaxman that telling people what to do by him is wrong as this can be done only by real Gedolim.
but concerning him seeing things in future which Choze means as smes of his things came true.The namechoze fits him but does not mean that he is like the choze from lublin but he choze ,sees things about the future.
Concerning joshwaxman outlook on the
codes as i said one should read properly the articles abou it in
Specially the aricle
Responding to the Critics

Anonymous said...

The comet Elenin just called and wants its 5 minutes of fame back.

10rainbow said...

i personally dont feel the comment section is to take on rabbis of standing. or for that matter atustics or people who are not there to defend themselves. If there are people or rabbis who think they are at par with the vilna gaon and such torah giants, they should be using their G-d given intelligence and whatever they assume they have to write explantions of the midrash or pehaps something about loshon hara. i dont think RGlazerson should be demeaned to this level with a kind of to and fro verbal match which appears to be always to prove the other side wrong. to be picky on every writing, on every person is just more than one can digest. i agree with anon that Mr . Nir too has a place in the world to come. as i wrote, this is MHO.

Tidbits of Torah said...

10rainbow - thank you, I could not have said this any better

Devorah said...

Josh, I think Rabbi Glazerson gave you his response in the video. Whether he has time to continue a dialogue here or not, I don't know.

glazerson said...

There is a very interesting, long interviw in the magazine in Hebrew "Shah Tovah", which one can get tomorrow in the state.
There one can see that in the first part of the artical the interviwer bring the oppinion of one of the greatest Rabbis in World,(this is what he writes)who answered to one ot the Avreichem who asked him,about getting advise from Nir Ben Artzi.
The Rabbi asked about him.He said that he speaks alot bout Mashiach.The Rabbi said,is nothing wrong with this.
He asked him what he is doing more, so he told him about his work and about him forcasting about future events in the world.
The Rabbi said it is ok, you can ask him for advise.
It is a very long interesting interviw wiyh him.
nothing there thing that Josh waksman.
In Israel this is very very carefull to bring things that Rbbis agree with.
So all the stories Joshwaksman say I do not from he took them.and i did not see any serious Rabbis who came a gainst him.
Concerning Josh waksman points about the Bible Codes, I already mentioned that all Josh waksman points every thing is in the site
So for me is wasting time dealing with.I have more important things to do
Have a Goot Shabeth and a Goot Chodesh


Devorah said...

Bli neder, more later....

is that a threat or a promise?


Moriah said...

With all due respect, there's no reason to go at Rabbi Glazerson with such obvious disdain. Why don't you email him or speak to him on the phone? You're showing disrespect in a very big way. It makes you look bad, Josh. This impudence is not flattering on you.You may not mean for it to come off this way but it is.

Devorah said...

To Josh: Moriah's right, and I was in two minds as to whether to publish some of those comments, but in the end it's your call, if you want to appear arrogant, you're doing a great job.

Devorah said...

He's not communicating with disdain, he responded to you several times.

You call youself ""Josh"" so other people do as well.....and Waxman, Wachsman, its all the same in loshon hakodesh.

I thought "chozeh" was fully covered in the video, as well as the article he referred you to in that magazine, which is available in the US. Maybe you should read that first, as he suggested.

Moriah said...

"Certainly the people who assert that he extorted hundreds of thousands of dollars from them would be surprised by this Torah Code."

Josh, we don't know the outcome of this case. I'm not telling you what to do but it might be a good idea to be careful of what you say about another Jew. Especially since there's been no judgement in the case as far as I now.

joshwaxman said...

In terms of חוזה, being that I am not an Israeli, it certainly is possible that חוזה is regularly used in modern Hebrew to refer to psychic. Is it, or is a kvetch from the Chozeh of Lublin?

Yes, even as I was writing my comments in the other thread, I was aware of the Chozeh of Lublin. This was due to his ruach hakodesh. He even has a famous 100 year prophecy that the Russians would lose Poland. The gemara says that though at the Churban, prophecy was taken, it stayed with talmidei chachamim. I would regard this instance of Chozeh as a kind of prophet, though with ruach hakodesh as a lower level of prophecy.

My understanding of NBA is not that NBA claims to operate via ruach hakodesh, as a result of his righteousness, or knowledge of Torah and kabbalah. Rather, Hashem has given him natural or supernatural powers and gifts which he cannot explain. This is along the lines of psychic.

I would not then extrapolate from a rabbi and tzaddik with ruach hakodesh to a random psychic, to say that חוזה is the appropriate word. Unless, of course, this is a regular, oft-used, modern Israeli word for psychic, חוזה. If it is, I retract on this count, and apologize for misleading people. If it is not, then I don't retract.

Meanwhile, you, Devorah, made the distinction that he was not a prophet but rather a psychic. And people agree and referring to Rabbi Glazerson, summarize as follows (quoted from Vos Iz Neias):

As for ben Artzi..... there is a video from Rabbi M. Glazerson showing the Torah Codes that ben Artzi is a chozer.... a seer..... google it and you'll find it, in hebrew only.
So he is not a Navi, but he is a chozer, according to the Torah Codes.

I was objecting to the interpretation of the Torah Code as ruling out NBA as a Navi but only a 'seer'. It certainly **does** mean 'prophet' in Biblical Hebrew. And I would still like to see evidence that it is a common term in modern Hebrew for psychic.

kol tuv,

Anonymous said...

Rechilut is sharing information about a subject which will incite or increase the listener's ill feelings against that subject. Often the information is derogatory, in which case it is Lashon Hara as well as Rechilut.

Rechilut is sharing information about a subject which will incite or increase the listener's ill feelings against that subject. Often the information is derogatory, in which case it is Lashon Hara as well as Rechilut.

A special video from Rabbi Glazerson for Shirat Devorah readers - esp. Josh :)

A word to the wise is sufficient

10rainbow said...

"Hillel said, "Do not judge others until you stand in their place.

Yeravam, who fell into idol worship, criticized King Solomon for a lesser sin. Specifically, when King Solomon completed the building of the Temple, he placed the Temple keys under his pillow. In this way, he would be ready to awaken early and perform the morning service in the Temple.
However, Bas-Pharaoh, one of King Solomon's wives, draped a tapestry with bronze stars over his bed. King Solomon saw the stars and thought it was still night. Consequently, the opening of the Temple doors was delayed for four hours.
Yeravam came to King Solomon's door with a group of men. He criticized and mocked the king's indiscretion. However, a Heavenly voice addressed Yeravam: "King Solomon sinned unintentionally. However, you, Yeravam, are destined to commit a far graver, intentional sin."
Refrain from all criticism and negative comments.

i think the above says it all. while we stand as Yeravams lets not judge the solomons of this world. this site has been a beacon of light for many of us living in places of darkness. let not our words on the diseased (like R Elazor) or the living darken this site which is following Hashem's instruction, a light to all nations.. thanks.

joshwaxman said...


Please note that certain comments have been removed. That also means that certain important points about the interpretation being subjective have been removed.

To try to sum up as politely as possible, given that Rabbi Glazerson approached the topic assuming that NBA was the real deal, his interpretation of the Torah code was in line with his prior assumptions. This then does not 'prove' anything. I could interpret the same Torah Code in a different, just as convincing way.

And also because of Rabbi Glazerson's assumption, the terms he searched for and did not search for also impacted the resulting Torah Code. Negative terms might well also appear in the same matrix.

Therefore, with all due respect to Rabbi Glazerson, IMHO, one should not take the Torah Code as proof or disprove of NBA's psychic status. Rather, one should evaluate the objective reality first, and take into consideration what various rabbanim have said, as well as what those rabbanim were aware of when they said it.

Devorah said...

Some comments were deleted due to their inappropriate content.

Comments on this post are now closed.