Thursday, November 1, 2018

Rabbi Mizrachi on Pittsburgh





46 comments:

Unknown said...

You should consider posting Rabbi Moshe Weinbeger's short talk on this subject. While I don't know for sure, I believe it may have been a response to this man's very foolish and misguided speech. This man has said many inflammatory and ignorant things in the past. You would be well served by steering very clear from him.

Devorah said...

Someone had sent me a link to Rabbi Weinberger's talk, but it seems it has been removed now.

I don't find Rabbi Mizrachi misguided at all. You need to remember that even rabbis on the internet are humans, and capable of making mistakes from time to time.

Anonymous said...

Hello Devorah,

Regarding Rabbi Weinberger's talk, is this what you were talking about.

Found it on YouTube...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cVaK0OmujI

Kala

Unknown said...

Rav Mizrachi is very learned and served in the Israeli Army ! Wake up he is very well learned man !

Devorah said...

Thanks for the link Kala. I searched on You Tube and nothing came up.

Neshama said...

oh, gosh, I started to listen to Rabbi Weinberger and honestly, I think he misconstrues certain things, and even calls the Rabbi he’s speaking about an “erev rav”, which is totally the opposite. When the Prophets were castigating Am Yisrael, the people wanted to stone the Prophets, to kill them, and they even locked up one. They didn’t want to hear the things they were saying, as a warning from Hashem, that the Beis was going to be demolished and they would be sent into golus. Our history is an open book and we know what Hashem caused to happen when people were depraved and not worthy of living. One cannot deny or smudge over any of this.

Today, we have no bona fide Prophets, but we do have brave learned souls that receive Siyata D’shamaya.

We are learning and we know that pervert societies are not destined to remain on earth. When detested perversions corrupt societies, one needs to stay clear of them, because, yes, something might happen to them. We observe the upheavals in the weather, volcanos, tsunamis, a nuclear disaster destroying our Pacific Ocean, floods, evil politics, and much more. This is not what life was 20 years ago, or 50 years ago. Even 10 years ago life was smoother, but beginning to unravel.

Antisemitism is a stick from Hashem to punish, and to wake up the people. And I say to move them out of golus and bring them to Eretz Yisrael, so Hashem can bring the Redemption. How can anyone’s eyes remain closed to what is occurring in the world. Personally, I put my trust in the Rabbonim in Eretz Yisrael, and not those in Golus.

Doesn’t this make one stop and think about their life? About G–D? Even the evangelicals are awake, they realize things are happening that are spoken about being in the End Times.

As Rabbi Mizrachi ybl”c has said, one should not be complacent, one should strive to come closer to Hashem, to do personal teshuva, before Mashiach arrives on the scene. I don’t think it will be possible after that.

Neshama said...

Another point. Since when does the Erev Rav warn about what the Torah says? The Erev Rav want to ‘destroy’ belief in G–D, they attack our Jewish Halacha and way of living.

The Vilna Gaon outlines who they are and what they do. Go and read!

elisheva barenbaum said...

Kala thank you for the link and for introducing me to Rav Weinberger. He spoke very well. Personally I am heartbroken by the massacre and by the foreboding that this is, Gd forbid, a taste of things to come for American Jews.

I listened to Rav Mizrachi, Rav Richter and now Rav Weinberger on the massacre, and honestly, I think that it is better for simple Jews not to get involved in machloket between chachamim. I have learnt that even better than judging favorably is not to judge at all, because ultimately we are judging ourselves. Also, only Hashem is dan yachid, i.e. judges alone, (and that Hashem is erech apayim, forebearing). In human society, the person requires a warning and two kosher witnesses in front of a beit din of three dayanim, expert in Torah law, before they can be found guilty of a Torah prohibition. And the Rambam says that it is better for 100 guilty people to go free than for one innocent person to be wrongly found guilty and punished.

Unfortunately we are constantly beset by so many strange tragedies, the two families destroyed by fires in New York, the three boys kidnapped and murdered in Israel, and now the family from Psagot consumed in flames, the Har Nof massacre and many more ... Are we really going to start judging the victims of each crime/tragedy on a scale of one to ten just how much they deserved it?

However, I do feel that this massacre has to be a wake-up call, not just to for unity, tshuva, chesed and all the feel-good stuff, but for American Jews to leave the exile.

elisheva barenbaum said...


Rav Yaakov Bender On The Pittsburgh Massacre

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzY0RVJOysg

Anonymous said...

People get very angry when someone speaks the bald truth, they prefer to hold on to their shallow, unlearned mind-set.

Neshama said...

Rabbi Weinberg should listen to "Rav Richter: "Pittsburgh Massacre - Jewish Wake-Up Call” יקותיאל בן יעקב at https://youtu.be/uf1w93_IwrU FOR THE CORRECT JEWISH RESPONSE. A very good analysis of events.

Elliot said...

Wow, one kiruv rabbi calls another kiruv rabbi the sitra achra because he is truthful and doesn't jump on the bandwagon of blandness to win popularity; is there jealousy among kiruv rabbis because one is much more successful?

elisheva barenbaum said...

People here need to calm down and write respectfully about talmidei chachamim and definitely not not say anything against them, and not get involved in machloket.

Devorah said...

Yes Elisheva, people definitely need to write respectfully about talmidei chachamim. Some comments lately have crossed the line, and normally I would delete them, but then I am accused of bias. So now seems like a good time to let everyone know that any comment containing any form of personal attack against any rabbi will not be published.

Anonymous said...

Well, firstly, Elisheva, I usually agree with you but here I really think you are mistaken. I did not hear Rabbi Weinberger's shiur or know who he is, but if he thinks and said that what Rabbi Mizrachi said on this matter is wrong, because the truth is the reverse. The Erev Rav are the enemy within and try all they can to destroy Torah and hinder the coming of Moshiach. L'havdil, Rabbi Mizrachi is absolutely right in warning our people. I always wondered why today's great Rabbis didn't speak up because this pertains to all of humanity. Today, when there are so many liberal Jews who are oblivious and ignorant of Jewish laws, they have abandoned their souls. Would suggest Jews listen to the above video and wake up to reality. May every Jew repent and so our whole nation can merit the coming of Moshiach Tzdkeinu b'rachamim.

mg said...

To Elisheva. Having the title Rabbi does not automatically make one a Talmid Chacham. A talmid Chacham is someone who is not only great in both neglah and penyimius ha torah but is a man of humility and love for his fellow Jews. I have listened to Rabbi Weinberger who is a true talmid Chacham and ohaiv yisroel who felt strongly about speaking out against the negative and painful message these certain rabbis were spreading. I asked my own rav about the mass shooting and he said that Jews who were killed for being Jewish (observant or not) are kedoshim. It is a shame that there are rabbis on cyberspace who continue to place obstacles in front of the 'blind'.

Anonymous said...

Dear Elisheva Barenbaum,

I agree with what you have written, and reallyl no one... no human no matter who, or from where, Jewish or non-Jewish, should judge anyone.

Let me make it clear to you, that i am not Jewish (wish i was, but Hashem put me where He thought i should be, and I say, Toda to Hashem)
I just follow Hashem and Torah, and i love going to Jewish blogs like Shirat Devorah and many others, for from them i have learned so much... May Hashem bless them... Amen.

I also listen to shiurs of Rabbis, some of them.. and if i find something that is not sitting well with me, sometimes i ask some Jewish bloggers, and they have helped me... this one where i am at the moment writing, Devorah, has helped me many many times, and i have read her blog write ups from many years back.. Thank you Devorah.

I agree with Devorah by no more publishing comments that attack some Rabbis, for as you said, Elisheve, not to judge and that is true... for then as i have heard from many good Rabbis, that when we do that, we bring more judgement on ourselves.

Hashem, has helped me many many times, when i have asked for H-s help, and i get answers, from wherever Hashem leads me to go read. Of-course i cannot claim, that Hashem speaks to me directly, but Hashem does help and I state clearly, even me a non Jew Hashem has helped me so so many times... I could write a book about..

From Breslov Blog oh my... I have learned and gained so much, that i feel so humbled and grateful...

Well sorry for this long comment.

Elisheva ( I Love that name, by the by..) may Hashem bless you and yours where ever you are.

Devorah, today, and Hashem bless you and yours.

In the end.. i pray Hashem bless all the wonderful blogs from where i have gained so much.

Hashem bless the Jewsish Nation... and ALL other good peoples too... Amen V'Amen.

Shabbat Shalom to all the Jewish nation.

Kala

Anonymous said...

Did anyone listen to the 5 Towns Inspiration Talk tonight? R' Feiner, R' Scholar, R' Oelbaum? Excellent food for thought(in my humble opinion)

Anonymous said...

"I have learnt that even better than judging favorably is not to judge at all ... Also, only Hashem is dan yachid, i.e. judges alone"

This is why I find R' Mizrachi inflammatory and offensive. He judges and condemns in absolute terms, and he has no authority to do so. He has no idea whether or not the murdered people merit Heaven. He has no idea what the balance of mitzvot to aveirot are in each individual. yet he laments that none of them did teshuva before they died. How does he know that?

I understand the disgust with Reform and other false offshoots of Torah Judaism. I also understand the condemnation of homosexuality and its full acceptance in society. But I don't understand when he calls people who are gay "disgusting people" who "go against nature".

This is ridiculous. Some people are NATURALLY attracted to the same sex. This is nature. Torah law that prohibits same-sex relations asks homosexually-inclined people to transcend their nature. Many laws of Torah ask us to transcend our nature, and our natural inclinations. This is what elevates us to kedusha. People are not "disgusting" because they have certain inclinations.

Anyway, I can go on and on about why I'm not fond of R' Mizrachi's harsh perspective. Also, circumstances have to be taken into account - like "Tinok Sh'nishba", which pretty much defines most of the current state of the Jewish People. Remember, the Israelites in Egypt were at the lowest spiritual state, and even they merited redemption.

We can criticize Reform Judaism and even "Progressive" Jews who actively work against their fellow Jews and Israel. But let's not judge harshly the eleven Jews who were murdered because they were Jewish.

Devorah said...

Apparently Rabbi Weinberger was responding to Rabbi Aderet's article

Rabbi Hoffman is also responding to Rabbi Aderet here:
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1614158/eight-things-that-are-terribly-wrong-with-this-rabbis-view-of-the-pittsburgh-massacre.html

Devorah said...

I agree with all of them ! Yes I see everyone's point here, and I'll sit this one out. I have no answers.

mg said...

The four axioms below were told to me by my rav and posaik in my community. He is a true talmid chacham and and ohaiv yisroel. I called him to clarify for me when is a Jew permitted to judge their fellow Jews, and can we say that the Jews who were killed in Pittsburgh not be considered kedoshim because they were gay.

Axiom #1: A judgement is decreed and Hashem calculates a judgment. For example, someone saw a Jew talking Loshon horah on his cellphone, a goy steals his cellphone and runs away. Now we could claim Hashem punished this person because he spoke loshon hora. However, this Jew may have been speaking to someone about helping another Jew in need. Therefore, we should not make connections of the actions of people in this world and the actions that come from above.

Axiom #2: Judgement is meted out by G-d , and we cry for the people being judged. For example, Yetzias Mitzraim. When the angels wanted to sing Shira, Hashem ordered them to stop exclaiming, “You seek to sing while My creations are being killed?” This is the reason why we do not sing Hallel on the last two days of Pesach.

Axiom #3: A Jew who is killed because he is a Jew, he died Al Kiddush Hashem. The Nazis didn’t discriminate between Frum and non-frum Jews when they tortured and killed them.

Axiom #4: A Jew who was not raised according to the Torah, is considered a Tinok V’nishbah. Therefore, they cannot be judged like a frum Jew who causes others to stray by committing a chillul Hashem.

With all this being said, my Rav stated that one who believes this narishkeit of R. Mizrachi is being swayed by a foolish person who does not know the Torah. 25 to 35 years ago, even in most traditional homes, Jews who committed immoral acts were considered a disgrace. However, today it is considered a civil right, because we live unfortunately, in an upside world. Today they are considered tinokim v’nishbah, since they are being raised in this immoral environment.
Lastly, the following information is a real eye-opener. According to a Gay newspaper that reported about the gay couple making the bris for their son that day, were not amongst the murdered kedoshim. They were not there when the shooting took place. So all this ranting by these rabbis were for naught.

Anonymous said...

To mg:

Thank you for bringing your rabbi's clarity and humanity. "Tinok Sh'Nishba" (literally, "a baby who has been captured") is huge today. Depressingly huge. And it doesn't help make Judaism welcoming - to those who are genuinely seeking - when rabbis speak in harsh, unforgiving tones.

Thank you especially for this:
"Axiom #3: A Jew who is killed because he is a Jew, he died Al Kiddush Hashem."

Amen.

moshiachnow said...

Rabbi Mizahi is correct in speaking against the homosexuality. Hashem gave us the mitzva not to do this act and a person can choose not to or get help not to, if the desire is too strong.However, unlike in Sodom where Hashem warned Avraham Avinu what he was going to do, there was no warning. No one could plead with Hashem not to bring this terror.
The attack happened on the 18th of Cheshvan, a date when the murder of another Jew took place, that of Rabbi Meir Kahane. The people who were murdered in Pittsburgh were mostly active Jews in their congregaion. As tinokim shenishba, maybe they didn't know better about Jewish halacha. Rabbi Meir Kahane was murdered for defending the Jewish rights to Israel. These people were murdered because they were Jewish.
The parsha talked about the akeida. These Jews were a korban- the person who killed them and others like him do not distinguish between Jews and neither should we. However, it is a wakeup call to do teshuva and as Rabbi Kahane warned, Jews in America have been targets of the hatred of Esav.

Neshama said...

Devorah, use your discretion in allowing this in your comment section.

Some of the above needs clarification. With all due respect for your inquiring mind, and you should be praised for this, but some commenters (#3 and #4 axioms) are being misled. To learn about Tinok sh’nishbah, one must learn the Halacha! from the SOURCE, not from your rabbi. Many people and rabbis really believe and think they know about this inyan, and are misleading the public. Ask the rabbi for the sources he is relying on (its not hutzpidik to ask this) and learn ‘inside’ how to determine who belongs to tinok sh'nishbah and who really dies *al kidush Hashem. You can learn this here: https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3521027/jewish/Mitzvas-Kiddush-Hashem.htm

*The mitzvah of AL Kiddush Hashem is when you give up your life willingly so as not to transgress the Mitzvah.

Re Tinok shenishbah, this is the classic definition: "The Talmud discusses the case of a “tinok shenishbah bein ha’akum” — a child raised from infancy amongst gentiles and who therefore has no understanding of Judaism. Such a person is not held accountable for not living in accordance with the Torah because he cannot be blamed for his lack of belief and observance.” Nowadays when nearly everyone sees/or knows what a religious Jew is, one who is not fully observant must ask about what makes a Jew Kosher, and what are the laws. Not to do so does not leave one in the category of tinok shenishbah. Every Jew is obligated to learn how to be a Kosher Jew. If one declares he does not believe in even ONE tenet of our halacha, he is regarded as not being Jewish, as many reform, conservative, and the other splintered groups. Especially when there is an Orthodox Shul in your area. Each Jew is responsible for learning the Halachos.

And any rabbi that disparages Rabbi Yosef Mizrachi shlit”a is questionable. Rabbi Mizrachi consults with the top top top in every way Rabbonim before entering a controversial discourse. And the Rabbi only gives over what our Holy Torah says, and what our Sages say, even if they differ with one another. When he gives his opinion which is rare, he always announces that it is his opinion.

From some of the responders here, their beliefs testify to the confusion that is rampant in our world today. They mean well and are caring but being properly educated is of the utmost importance nowadays.

Jewgirl said...

I read peoples comment here about Rabbi Mizrachi I want to point out Rabbi Mizrachi is teaching musar, musar is not gentle it is strait to the point. If you can't take it don't listen to him. Rabbi Mizrachi brought out a lot of valet points.
What I see HaShem is communicating really loud, but people don't get it. I was shocked what I heart about this couple trying to do a brit milah we don't need to judge obviously the heavenly court has done that.
What was shocking to see at the burial place on the graves where Star of David's with a cross in the back. Are they buried in a Jewish cemetery? And if they are Jews there who died kiddush HaShem I don't even want to go there what their souls have to endure.

All over this is tragic and sad and I believe there is a very deep meaning in regards of Moshiach being very close.

Shabbat Shalom,

Efraim Yochanan ben Avraham said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cNGHkXBseE&fbclid=IwAR3w-yYlBhmNSGVP-uQaQ0_xTXUd9yY8YE-M2VFB_1KjMHH9c2H2fw18EAU
Kyle Jones
2 days ago (edited)
A Horrible Accident In Israel - 0:19
The Misleading Message Of American Rabbis - 6:09
The Difference Between Jews Who Keep Mitzvot, And Those Who Don't (With Sources) - 13:48
What It Means To Be Tinok Shenishba (By Rashi) - 25:03
What It Means To Be Tinok Shenishba (Continued) - 32:49
Christians Leaving Christianity - 39:10
Email From An Arab - 40:54
Conclusion Of The Rabbis' Misleading Message - 46:30
Rabbi Condemned For Speaking Against The Sins Of The Synagogue/Rav Sternbuch - 50:46
You Must Hate What HaShem Hates, And Love What He Loves - 1:00:30
You Cannot Watch Sports In A Kosher Way/State Of The World - 1:05:20
Significance Of Parashat Chayey Sarah - 1:10:55
Importance Of Hashkafa (With Examples) - 1:15:37
Never Surrender To The Pressure Of People - 1:31:45
Significance of Parashat Chayey Sarah (Continued) - 1:34:48
When Will Moshiach Come? - 1:36:44
A Trip To Kever Rachel - 1:40:05
Why Did Sarah Live A Shorter Life Than Avram? - 1:42:17
Why Did Sarah Lose 48 Years Of Her Life? - 1:44:39
Story Of Rabbi Avraham Stefanski - 1:50:38
Sins Prevent Luck, By Rabbi Shimon Ben Eleazar (With Sceptic) - 1:56:02
Poverty And Wealth Do Not Come From The Nature Of The Profession - 2:10:00

moshiachnow said...

To "Neshama".
Concerning dying "al kiddush Hashem" you should read this article which talks about active and passive forms. http://www.aish.com/ho/i/48955481.html?mobile=yes
If you had searched more on chabad.org, you would have seen that the people who were murdered were a tinok shenishba. https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2312348/jewish/Chapter-9-Our-Generation-The-Tinok-SheNishbah.htm

Anonymous said...

To Elisheva: You are not getting the point being made here. You compare some of the kedoshim who were massacred in EY and elsewhere to this particular incident. What the Rabbis, and we should all learn from them, are trying to alert us is that these 'shuls' and twisted denominations are not part of the Torah/Jewish world and thet is something that, we believe, H' is trying to warn us because it's causing harm to ourselves and to the world. It's plain and simple. No one is getting involved in machlokes, just plain old fashioned 'mussar', that has kept our people and Torah going and if we want the Geula sooner and with rachamim, we all need to do teshuvah.

Devorah said...

11/3/18 The Pittsburgh Tragedy: A discussion of the correct approach and its lessons. A Halachick analysis of guns on Shabbos and in Shuls
November 2, 2018
Clips from Rabbis Aderet, Brog and Weinberger and Discussion of dealing with the Conservative Synagogue massacre

with Rabbi Shimon Silver - Rav, Young Israel of Greater Pittsburgh - 38:05
with Rabbi Shuey Biston - Rav, Chabad of Parkland, FL - 1:21:55
with Rabbi Yoel Schonfeld - Rav, Young Israel of Kew Gardens Hills, VP, Coalition for Jewish Values - 1:28:35
with Mr. Ben Goldstein - Head of Akrav Security, Emergency responder in Gush Etzion - 1:44:45

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/11318-the-pittsburgh-tragedy-a-discussion-of-the-correct-approach-and-its-lessons-a-halachick-analysis-of-guns-on-shabbos-and-in-shuls/

Devorah said...

Interestingly, there are no judgements from the Chabad side of town - all are one and one is all: Pittsburgh Delegation Leads Thousands of Rabbis in Prayer and Solemn Song

Neshama said...

This is definitely a delicate matter, and we don’t wish the worst on anyone, but know that because this is such a gigantic issue in the world right now, this is a message from Shamayim.

mashiachnow, you are incorrect about tinok shenisbah. According to AUTHENTIC HALACHA these people knew there was an orthodox shul in their immediate area, and they did not ask or wonder why there are different modes of worship, and what is the authentic one that GOD wants from us, and therefore do teshuva the correct way.

Nowadays the ONUS IS ON US to investigate and come closer to authentic Judaism, not a jewish-style version. If one denies any of Maimonides 13 Principles of Judaism, or ANY ONE of the 613 Mitzvot, he is not counted among Am Yisrael. And any ONE who does not keep Shabbat correctly (no turning on/off lights, cooking, driving to shut, etc) he/she is not considered Jewish. That is a Halacha. Sounds harsh but it is Halacha.

Yes, they were murdered because they were Jews, but their status is up to Halacha and Hashem.

Some Rabbis do not agree that one can seemingly worship a Rabbi that is not alive, and that some might say “Our Rabbi is sitting in his chair still” and that “Our Rabbi is alive when he is not” and “Our Rabbi is Moshiach”. I believe that Mashiach arrives before Reincarnated Souls, so that a deceased Rabbi cannot be Mashiach. One can say that when their Rabbi was alive he was a candidate to become Mashiach. But that is solely up to Hashem.

Rachel said...

I happen to love Rabbi Mizrachi... when he speaks I get a gut good feeling, that he is speaking the truth le'sheim shamayim. Having said that, I do have a problem with the definitions of tinok she'nishba. Yes, we are supposed to question. But the fact that people grew up thinking that being Conservative or Reform is just another choice of how to express their Judaism, why would they ever question it? They don't know enough to ask!

Devorah said...

Rachel I agree with you regarding tinok shenishba, and I would also like to add that kids today have been totally brainwashed by the media and the general concensus, they have no clue what real Torah is. In my mind they are also tinok shenishba, they have been spiritually captured by the nations. And what about the victims of sexual abuse by rabbis? Or any form of abuse within the religious world... we cannot judge anyone, as we don't really know all the details.

Anonymous said...

I would like to add that first, the Chabad is not like it once was, since the passing of the Rebbe, z't'l. Where is the leadership and understandings coming from? So, we therefore, see opinions and interpretations we would not have heard from the Rebbe.
Secondly, the unfortunate problem of the reform and conservative movements which has truly been the thorn in the sides of our people and our holy Torah and has caused millions of Jews who knew and know nothing of Judasim to fall prey to their unholy teachings. The tinokot shenishbu are the innocent Jews who know no better. The leadership and rabbis of these movements are definitely not 'tinokot shenishbu. Why this big hoopla on something that should be so understood and accepted by our leaders is, I think, the political correctness of the times and here is where we must praise rabbis such as Rabbi Mizrachi and others.

Anonymous said...



Devorah, right you are as always!

Must remember also that most non-Jewish children, have also been led astray, by these who are trying to brain wash them into their evil thinking.

Trying to oust Gd, (Gd forbid) from His throne, which of-course is impossible.
The only thing i look forward too is when Mashiach comes, and they find out the evilness of their ways, by 'they' i mean the so called evil leaders of the world.. Oh how i look forward to that time.. hope i am around to see it...

I pray for all childrens of the world, that Gd may protect each one, and keep them safe from all harm.
To read and see what they are doing to innocent vulnerable children, makes me weep... literally i weep.. as i am sure many do.

May Hashem help all... amen.

kala

Devorah said...

Rabbi Kessin talks about Pittsburgh in his latest shiur here: Thoughts on the Migrant Caravan

Anonymous said...

Devorah, I sincerely hope you will listen and post this on your blog.

Rabbi Mashiach Kelaty's Shiur just a short one, and his opinion on the tradgedy of Pittsburg.

I think he spoke true. At least i agree with him..

One should not judge anyone, and even if one does not agree, one should never condemn.. and to remember - this i have to do myself... (May Hashem help me).. that in the end... the only one to judge all of mankind is Hashem...

Here than the shiur....

https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=70096

kala

Devorah said...

YK: I may agree with you in principle but I can't publish your comments because they are insulting to one of the rabbis. If you can calm down and rewrite your comments in decent language, I will publish them.

Devorah said...

Various links you should all read:


Pittsburgh: An Inside View


Fake News, Says Tree Of Life Rabbi, Addressing Rumors Of Gay Bris During Pittsburgh Synagogue Massacre




FAKE NEWS! Rumors Of A Bris At The Tree Of Life Synagogue Confirmed As False

Alan Weiss said...

It turns out there was no gay bris being celebrated at the Synagogue. Perhaps now people can reevaluate their "feelings" about different Rabbanim and recognize true leadership. Hashem embarrassed the judgmental ones. Listening to their comments now that we know the truth exposes them for who they are.

Devorah said...

Alan, there are two ways to do kiruv work: one is through love and the other is through fear. I prefer the first way, as shown by the Lubavitcher Rebbe. Rabbi Mizrachi's way of kiruv is to scare people into teshuva. This works for a lot of people, so we shouldn't be judging him either. We may not respond well to his mussar but that doesn't mean he's wrong.

Alan Weiss said...

Thanks for the response Devorah! In my mind, this is not about the Chassidic approach versus the Mussar approach. Rather, it's about recognizing true leaders. Falsely accusing murder victims in the immediate aftermath of their murders is not the approach of true Jewish leaders. False leadership is a significant contributing factor to the prolonged exile. I urge you to review the clip of the rabbi from great neck now that we know the truth about what was and was not happening in the Synagogue. His false leadership is obvious. It has nothing to do with Mussar.

Devash said...

Regarding the reported "bris," we still don't know for certain because the denials came very late and were worded in a way that they could be technically true with the fact of such a bris still a reality.

It was widely reported from the very beginning that a cart with wine goblets, glasses and liquor was set up in preparation for the celebration of a bris that morning. No denials were forthcoming for about ten days.

Every "gay" website reported it. Why would such sites make this up? The "confirmation" they were awaiting was for the bris to actually take place. In light of what finally happened, it makes a lot of sense that the parents would not want their identity to become known to the public.

The rabbi of Tree of Life said there was no bris in "my" synagogue, but to my understanding it was supposed to happen at New Light - the Reconstructionist group that used a different part of the building. A Chabad shaliach said no bris was taking place at the time of the shooting. True, as it was still early, not everyone had arrived. Prayers were not even taking place yet.

What is maybe more important here is that such an occurrence - a bris for an adopted baby with two fathers and no mother - COULD HAVE taken place in any one of the groups meeting there. No one seems to deny that.

Devorah said...

This is a must read Rabbi Pruzansky - Lies to Power HT Yaak thank you

Devorah said...

Rabbi Mizrachi doesn't hold back in responding to this topic in his latest video - from about 8 mins in, after he talks about the current situation in Israel.