Regarding going to pray at a SAINTS GRAVE. Christians do tat to, they do not pray to the sint directly, but ask the saini ti intercede to Gd for them Its the same as some Jews do.
Oh Devorah, i am Noahide. This is what i had heard some Rabbis say-that christians like to pray to saints for help or requests,that this was not a good thing to do. They said that Goyim do that,but Jews go directly to Hashem. i truly believe that too.
As a child in the christian faith, i hated that also -going to pray to saints. i would go directly to Gd.
So, what i was trying to say, was that even christians like going to saints for intercessions. Whether these christians learnt that from Jews, i know nought. But this i know, many protestants do not go to saints. They go straight to their JC. i by the by the by am an ex Roman Catholic. christianity never made sense to me. i am Noahide.and i am learning all i can from "Torah Any Time" and i also am an old listener of "srael National Radio".
i am 70 yrs old and i love Hashem. My name is stella. Am Israel Chai!!
Hi Stella: Jews do pray direct to G-d, but some Jews also ask for the tzaddik to intercede when it seems that all hope is lost. [I also would not compare a true tzaddik to a saint, there is a difference between the two] But this is not my area of expertise, I'm just saying it as I know it. If any rabbi would like to offer a better explanation, please go ahead.
This is a helpful article: Why is it permitted to ask a Tzaddik to davven on one’s behalf, but it is not permitted to submit the same request to an angel? The Rebbe explains: See here:
Be that as it may, the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch writes: http://www.kitzur.net/main.php?black=false&nk=&siman=128
ויעשה הקדוש-ברוך-הוא חסד בזכות הצדיקים. אבל אל ישים מגמתו נגד המתים השוכנים שם, כי קרוב הדבר שיהיה בכלל ודורש אל המתים. אך יבקש מהשם, יתברך שמו, שירחם עליו בזכות הצדיקים שוכני עפר.
that he should say that "Hashem should perform chessed in the merit of the tzaddikim. But he should not direct himself to the dead who are dwelling there, for this matter is close to be within the [Biblically prohibited] 'and consulting the dead'. But rather, he should ask of Hashem, Yisbarach shemo, that he have mercy upon him in the merit of the righteous who are sleeping in the dust."
This admittedly might be a matter of dispute, but it should be stressed that according to many halachic authorities, there is a problem in directing prayers towards deceased tzaddikim.
Very inspiring. Hashem truly is in control and we have to listen to our messages.
ReplyDeleteRegarding going to pray at a SAINTS GRAVE. Christians do tat to, they do not pray to the sint directly, but ask the saini ti intercede to Gd for them Its the same as some Jews do.
ReplyDeleteAnd from where do you think the Christians learned to do that?
ReplyDeleteFrom the Jews.
See here for more: The Basis and Reason for praying at kivrei tzaddikim
ReplyDeleteOh Devorah, i am Noahide.
ReplyDeleteThis is what i had heard some Rabbis say-that christians like to pray to saints for help or requests,that this was not a good thing to do.
They said that Goyim do that,but Jews go directly to Hashem.
i truly believe that too.
As a child in the christian faith, i hated that also -going to pray to saints. i would go directly to Gd.
So, what i was trying to say, was that even christians like going to saints for intercessions.
Whether these christians learnt that from Jews, i know nought. But this i know, many protestants do not go to saints. They go straight to their JC.
i by the by the by am an ex Roman Catholic. christianity never made sense to me. i am Noahide.and i am learning all i can from "Torah Any Time" and i also am an old listener of "srael National Radio".
i am 70 yrs old and i love Hashem.
My name is stella.
Am Israel Chai!!
Hi Stella: Jews do pray direct to G-d, but some Jews also ask for the tzaddik to intercede when it seems that all hope is lost. [I also would not compare a true tzaddik to a saint, there is a difference between the two]
ReplyDeleteBut this is not my area of expertise, I'm just saying it as I know it. If any rabbi would like to offer a better explanation, please go ahead.
This is a helpful article:
ReplyDeleteWhy is it permitted to ask a Tzaddik to davven on one’s behalf, but it is not permitted to submit the same request to an angel? The Rebbe explains: See here:
The difference between a request to an angel and a request to a tzaddik
Be that as it may, the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch writes:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.kitzur.net/main.php?black=false&nk=&siman=128
ויעשה הקדוש-ברוך-הוא חסד בזכות הצדיקים. אבל אל ישים מגמתו נגד המתים השוכנים שם, כי קרוב הדבר שיהיה בכלל ודורש אל המתים. אך יבקש מהשם, יתברך שמו, שירחם עליו בזכות הצדיקים שוכני עפר.
that he should say that "Hashem should perform chessed in the merit of the tzaddikim. But he should not direct himself to the dead who are dwelling there, for this matter is close to be within the [Biblically prohibited] 'and consulting the dead'. But rather, he should ask of Hashem, Yisbarach shemo, that he have mercy upon him in the merit of the righteous who are sleeping in the dust."
This admittedly might be a matter of dispute, but it should be stressed that according to many halachic authorities, there is a problem in directing prayers towards deceased tzaddikim.