Very irresponsible to say these things for a world audience imho. The messiah can pay the sins for the whole world? Too, too much for me. If I'd heard this before leaving that false religion, I probably never would have. I'd have thought, "See, the new testament is right. It really is a jewish story." Just sayin.
I have a hard time accepting that Christianity got the idea from Judaism - that one man can suffer for the sins of all. One of the main points of Judaism is that each individual can redeem himself through mitzvot. In Parshat Ki Teitzei it says a father shall not die for his the sins of his son, nor shall a son die for the sins of his father.
I was waiting through these 11 shiurim for talk about Nibiru and extreme weather changes that would send the world running for cover (and therefore elections wouldn't even happen because martial law would be put into effect in an effort to control the chaos.) Why would we be able to see Nibiru and the system if Hashem isn't planning to bring moshiach until all the Jews are more ready? Why doesn't he address it at all? Is he not informed with all the videos and photos? Someone on his YouTube video comments said he would ask him about it but I never heard a response. I love his shiurim but I am sure he would have more to say and change some ideas he has said already if he considered nibiru as part of the picture.
One thing for sure is that you can't accuse rabbi kessin of being boring , he is trying to do something that few others would ever attempt to do but one thing he may not be taking into account is that the Mashiach can come sooner if we are shaken up by some unpredictable events Niburu or other unpredictables like war natural disasters etc' . I feel something will happen in the near term .
Dear Rabbi Kessin. Please! If the Rav does not have the time to check out his facts before speaking, then PLEASE have a student do some background checking and don't just rely on the phrase "I heard that..." That is unbecoming a Torah teacher who must always uphold the truth.
Daughter Ivanka - It's public knowledge that she converted for marriage. The couple broke up for a period of time because she was being pressured to convert. They eventually got engaged the same week she completed her conversion. If it were anyone else, this would not be taken seriously. And as for the "frum" Jew she married - he dated a shiksa!
Son Eric - intermarried with a Jewish woman. Could not confirm if she is "Jewish" from her mother or her father (or both), but she is not observant and she, of course, intermarried.
Daughter Tiffany - reportedly dating a Jew, who also has no qualms about inter-dating. Could not confirm Jewish identity and whether from mother's or father's side (or both).
Son Barron - too young to date yet.
Google is a wonderful thing. One can have the facts at his fingertips and not have to rely on what he has "heard".
Much of what the Rabbi said is in the Torah, nothing strange here, i.e. “One Man’s Opinion”. Looking at where the world is today, maybe 5-8 years of a Presidency is needed to straighten it out (after all, it took 8 years to mess it up); however, that is not what Menachem of AbsoluteTruth613 and Rabbi Glazerson say.
These periods of "peace and tranquility" when a Jew was "sheini l'melech" were when goyim ruled over Eretz Yisrael and Klal Yisrael was in galut. Is the Rav certain that the same conditions really apply today when nearly the majority of the world's Jews now reside in Eretz Yisrael and the entire infrastructure for the restored monarchy is in place - just lacking the will and the removal of the Erev Rav to carry it out?
The trouble with pinning all these hopes on Trump's election is that even should he win and have every good intention to "Make America Great Again", he won't be the absolute ruler of the world like Pharaoh and King Achashverosh were. He will have to operate under all the constraints of the electorate, the Congress, the UN and other world leaders, the NWO, the broken economy, threats within and threats without, etc, etc, etc.
Besides that, every indicator shows that Eretz Yisrael is rising and Chazal said that when Yisrael goes up, Eisav goes down - that they will never be up at the same time.
I also don't understand this refrain of "Mashiach can''t come now" when no less than the Chofetz Chaim expected him every minute of every day even in his time. When Moshe Rabbeinu arrived in Mitzrayim, Klal Yisrael was in the very depths, but it didn't hold Moshe back. Without Moshe coming when he did to begin the process of redemption, Klal Yisrael would have been lost there. But by the time that year of makot was finished Klal Yisrael was already well on the way up and only 50 days after leaving Mitzrayim were fit to receive the Torah at Har Sinai! And there certainly was no "peace and tranquility" in Mitzrayim for Jews before Moshe Rabeinu arrived nor afterwards until Klal Yisrael had left and Egypt lay in ruins.
Do not agree with his hashkafa. He's comfortable with fifteen more years instead of working to see the geulah immediately. Secondly, it shouldn't be the galut we emphasize because it's really about the Yehudim and Eretz Yisrael. As above commenter wrote, where did he get moshiach pays for the sins of the world. It does sound like, chas v'chalilah, what the goyim believe. Puleeze!
I haven't heard most of the lecture yet so won't comment on anything but the idea of Moshiach "paying for the sins of the world." As far as I understand Rabbi Kessin is quoting a passage from the Yalkut Shimoni where Hashem does ask Moshiach if he is willing to bear a yoke of suffering and Moshiach answers something like (paraphrase from memory but generally accurate) "With joy and gladness of the heart I will accept this suffering on condition that everyone will be redeemed in my time, and not only everyone in my time but all those who have every lived, and not only all those who have ever lived but even miscarriages, and not only miscarriages but even those You thought to create but did not - on this condition I accept this suffering."
It may be a stretch or a paraphrase of his own to say that Moshiach is paying for the sins of the world, although I have also been taught that Moshiach experiences a huge portion of the pain of the world, maybe it was a third? But there is an extremely clear source for the idea that Moshiach accepts suffering on behalf of the redemption of everyone, which maybe comes out to the same thing.
And as the Previous Lubavitcher Rebbe once said (paraphrasing again!) "Just because the x-tians take something from our Holy Torah it doesn't mean that that no longer belongs to us!"
I think the problem with the x-tian thing is not the suffering part but the fact that the suffering replaces our relationship with Hashem and primarily the mitzvos. As Moshiach has to bring the Jewish people BACK to the Torah this is clearly the opposite of the truth.
But honestly Devorah, does this whole lego land tower that he's building add up? Have you ever heard such ideas before? Like where is he getting this from? Are these his own ideas??? And if Trump loses, does Edom lose their messiah? And where does it say that Edom has one anyway?
re: Trump etc - He does state that it is his own theory and may not happen. But the information he gives along the way, such as descriptions of the Moshiach etc, is all factual.
"I think the problem with the x-tian thing is not the suffering part but the fact that the suffering replaces our relationship with Hashem and primarily the mitzvos. As Moshiach has to bring the Jewish people BACK to the Torah this is clearly the opposite of the truth."
Ok, well, this sort of helps explain it, although I still can't reconcile everything I know about Judaism with the concept of Mashiach suffering for our sins. Christianity is so unpalatable to me precisely because of this notion of someone else suffering for the sins of others. It leads to other false Christian ideas like: everyone is born in sin; there is no redemption but through the suffering (and death) of JC; the Law is perfect but people are not, so JC had to come and fulfill the Law so that we no longer have to; etc, etc.
The way R' Kessin said, "they took the idea from us" makes it sound as though false Christian theological ideas are Jewish in origin.
Yes Anonymous @ 3.45 they are Jewish in origin, like a great deal of the xtian religion, and the reason they are false when used by the xtians is because the xtians applied them to their nonsense and twisted them to suit their needs. If ever there was a religion full of twisted truths it is the xtian religion.
Can't argue with you on that, Devorah. I do wish, however, that R' Kessin would be mindful that not only observant Jews are watching his videos. Things like this can be easily misconstrued and cause great confusion, imo.
the idea that a tzaddik has the power to atone for the sins of Am Yisrael is a completely jewish idea. this also applies to the kohen gadol on yom kippur who, through his service, atoned for the sins of Am Yisrael. it is also possible for a simple jew, or group of jews to do the same. the unique power of a tzaddik, or kohen, lies in the fact that they have a soul that includes the soul roots of the entire people. these are ideas that are fundamental to judaism and spread out in all the holy sefarim--which is why when someone wants a cut and dried source, it is not so simple to bring that one source that "proves everything." (it's like asking bring me a proof that emunah is fundamental to the jewish people)
christianity most certainly co-oped this idea. ironically, those who live among christians or who have been exposed to christian ideas in the course of their lives are the ones who have the most difficulty seeing the idea in judaism. it is not an issue with someone who has been immersed their entire lives in torah and knows the our holy sources, since it is all there and more.
and by the way, rabbi kessin has tremendous courage to dare to suggest that two thirds of the world will not be blowing up any time in the near or far future. we should argue that "yes yes the world should be destroyed!"?? G-d has many compassionate ways for His creation even while preserving the attribute of justice.
What's upsetting about the video and even the commenters is bringing in a 'religion' (avodah zorah) into this debate. Moshiach's coming had nothing to do with xtianity, islam, buddahism, etc., etc. We should not bring anything other than Jewish sources into the discussion and trying to bring the Jews back into the fold by doing teshuvah. Moshiach is coming in its time and no matter what, he will come and then the world will know that there is only H'.
Another thing, every religion and even the mythologies are somehow and somewhat derived from Torah because Torah is the only Truth and every thing else is a mock version of Truth. Esav/Edom,Yishmael & Erev Rav are the mortal enemies of H' and His children,Yisrael! They understaand that with Moshiach's coming, it will be their downfall, so they are trying to stop his coming which, of course, cannot be done. The wicked will be undone and the righteous will endure. Every true Jewish neshama has a portion in the World to Come. H' knows who the righteous of the nations are and they will also have their portion in the World to Come. May we have our Redemption (Geulah Shleimah) in a blink of an eyes, b'rachamim for every emmeser Yid and the righteous.
Thank you Shifra, Devorah, and Anonymous at 8:21 and at 8:26, You all have a solid Torah foundation. Some others have holes in their learning, or do not understand correctly what they have learned. I wil watch the Rabbi Kessin lecture again today, but I am fairly certain Rabbi Kessin was reading directly from the Yalkut Shimoni as Shifra stated. Hillel from Kingsland, GA
I thought that Rabbi Kessin would have another video (#12) after this shiur to answer the question re the biblical answer for how Trump can win. Is Rabbi Kessin going to post something here on that
What a privilege AND what an incredible journey this has been to learn from R Kessin.
ReplyDeleteI am so very grateful you posted them here. I never would have known about them most likely.
Thank you!!!
Amazing chassidus teachings in that lecture, even if I don't like the 15 more years scenario.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.wnd.com/2016/09/trump-as-american-messiah-rabbi-says-yes/
ReplyDeletehttp://www.wnd.com/2016/09/trump-as-american-messiah-rabbi-says-yes/
ReplyDeletehttp://www.worldtribune.com/ultimatum-khamenei-says-islamic-world-must-fundamentally-reconsider-saudi-control-of-mecca/
ReplyDeleteVery irresponsible to say these things for a world audience imho. The messiah can pay the sins for the whole world? Too, too much for me. If I'd heard this before leaving that false religion, I probably never would have. I'd have thought, "See, the new testament is right. It really is a jewish story." Just sayin.
ReplyDeleteI have a hard time accepting that Christianity got the idea from Judaism - that one man can suffer for the sins of all. One of the main points of Judaism is that each individual can redeem himself through mitzvot. In Parshat Ki Teitzei it says a father shall not die for his the sins of his son, nor shall a son die for the sins of his father.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 8:09,
ReplyDeleteSee here.
and who is the European Esav than ? The Rav taks like the US is the only country outside of the middle east; doesnt make sense
ReplyDeleteI was waiting through these 11 shiurim for talk about Nibiru and extreme weather changes that would send the world running for cover (and therefore elections wouldn't even happen because martial law would be put into effect in an effort to control the chaos.) Why would we be able to see Nibiru and the system if Hashem isn't planning to bring moshiach until all the Jews are more ready? Why doesn't he address it at all? Is he not informed with all the videos and photos? Someone on his YouTube video comments said he would ask him about it but I never heard a response. I love his shiurim but I am sure he would have more to say and change some ideas he has said already if he considered nibiru as part of the picture.
ReplyDeleteOne thing for sure is that you can't accuse rabbi kessin of being boring , he is trying to do
ReplyDeletesomething that few others would ever attempt to do but one thing he may not be taking into account is that the Mashiach can come sooner if we are shaken up by some unpredictable events
Niburu or other unpredictables like war natural disasters etc' . I feel something will happen
in the near term .
I left this comment below the video...
ReplyDeleteDear Rabbi Kessin. Please! If the Rav does not have the time to check out his facts before speaking, then PLEASE have a student do some background checking and don't just rely on the phrase "I heard that..." That is unbecoming a Torah teacher who must always uphold the truth.
Previously, I left information that debunked the "Blood Moon" misinformation that started with the Xians and made its way into the Rav's lectures - more than once! (http://palmtreeofdeborah.blogspot.co.il/2015/04/the-blood-moons-myth.html)
Here are the facts about Mr. Trump's "Jewish" family...
Son Donald, Jr - married to Vanessa Haydon whose father is Jewish, but her mother is not. ("Haydon wore a cross on her wedding day." https://www.jewishtampa.com/jews-in-the-news/jews-in-the-news-andy-samberg-liza-weil-ivanka-trump)
Daughter Ivanka - It's public knowledge that she converted for marriage. The couple broke up for a period of time because she was being pressured to convert. They eventually got engaged the same week she completed her conversion. If it were anyone else, this would not be taken seriously. And as for the "frum" Jew she married - he dated a shiksa!
Son Eric - intermarried with a Jewish woman. Could not confirm if she is "Jewish" from her mother or her father (or both), but she is not observant and she, of course, intermarried.
Daughter Tiffany - reportedly dating a Jew, who also has no qualms about inter-dating. Could not confirm Jewish identity and whether from mother's or father's side (or both).
Son Barron - too young to date yet.
Google is a wonderful thing. One can have the facts at his fingertips and not have to rely on what he has "heard".
Much of what the Rabbi said is in the Torah, nothing strange here, i.e. “One Man’s Opinion”.
ReplyDeleteLooking at where the world is today, maybe 5-8 years of a Presidency is needed to straighten it out (after all, it took 8 years to mess it up); however, that is not what Menachem of AbsoluteTruth613 and Rabbi Glazerson say.
My second comment to the video there...
ReplyDeleteThese periods of "peace and tranquility" when a Jew was "sheini l'melech" were when goyim ruled over Eretz Yisrael and Klal Yisrael was in galut. Is the Rav certain that the same conditions really apply today when nearly the majority of the world's Jews now reside in Eretz Yisrael and the entire infrastructure for the restored monarchy is in place - just lacking the will and the removal of the Erev Rav to carry it out?
The trouble with pinning all these hopes on Trump's election is that even should he win and have every good intention to "Make America Great Again", he won't be the absolute ruler of the world like Pharaoh and King Achashverosh were. He will have to operate under all the constraints of the electorate, the Congress, the UN and other world leaders, the NWO, the broken economy, threats within and threats without, etc, etc, etc.
Besides that, every indicator shows that Eretz Yisrael is rising and Chazal said that when Yisrael goes up, Eisav goes down - that they will never be up at the same time.
I also don't understand this refrain of "Mashiach can''t come now" when no less than the Chofetz Chaim expected him every minute of every day even in his time. When Moshe Rabbeinu arrived in Mitzrayim, Klal Yisrael was in the very depths, but it didn't hold Moshe back. Without Moshe coming when he did to begin the process of redemption, Klal Yisrael would have been lost there. But by the time that year of makot was finished Klal Yisrael was already well on the way up and only 50 days after leaving Mitzrayim were fit to receive the Torah at Har Sinai! And there certainly was no "peace and tranquility" in Mitzrayim for Jews before Moshe Rabeinu arrived nor afterwards until Klal Yisrael had left and Egypt lay in ruins.
Finally, the "fifteen-year" breakout period for Iran to have nuclear weapons is out the window. Please see: Iran could have an operational nuke by 2017 end.
Do not agree with his hashkafa. He's comfortable with fifteen more years instead of working to see the geulah immediately. Secondly, it shouldn't be the galut we emphasize because it's really about the Yehudim and Eretz Yisrael. As above commenter wrote, where did he get moshiach pays for the sins of the world. It does sound like, chas v'chalilah, what the goyim believe. Puleeze!
ReplyDeleteyiddele
I haven't heard most of the lecture yet so won't comment on anything but the idea of Moshiach "paying for the sins of the world." As far as I understand Rabbi Kessin is quoting a passage from the Yalkut Shimoni where Hashem does ask Moshiach if he is willing to bear a yoke of suffering and Moshiach answers something like (paraphrase from memory but generally accurate) "With joy and gladness of the heart I will accept this suffering on condition that everyone will be redeemed in my time, and not only everyone in my time but all those who have every lived, and not only all those who have ever lived but even miscarriages, and not only miscarriages but even those You thought to create but did not - on this condition I accept this suffering."
ReplyDeleteIt may be a stretch or a paraphrase of his own to say that Moshiach is paying for the sins of the world, although I have also been taught that Moshiach experiences a huge portion of the pain of the world, maybe it was a third? But there is an extremely clear source for the idea that Moshiach accepts suffering on behalf of the redemption of everyone, which maybe comes out to the same thing.
And as the Previous Lubavitcher Rebbe once said (paraphrasing again!) "Just because the x-tians take something from our Holy Torah it doesn't mean that that no longer belongs to us!"
I think the problem with the x-tian thing is not the suffering part but the fact that the suffering replaces our relationship with Hashem and primarily the mitzvos. As Moshiach has to bring the Jewish people BACK to the Torah this is clearly the opposite of the truth.
Thank you Shifra, you put that very well. The Xtians took it from us, not the other way around, as Rabbi Kessin clearly stated in the shiur.
ReplyDeleteBut honestly Devorah, does this whole lego land tower that he's building add up?
ReplyDeleteHave you ever heard such ideas before? Like where is he getting this from? Are these his own ideas???
And if Trump loses, does Edom lose their messiah? And where does it say that Edom has one anyway?
Judi
re: Trump etc - He does state that it is his own theory and may not happen. But the information he gives along the way, such as descriptions of the Moshiach etc, is all factual.
ReplyDelete"I think the problem with the x-tian thing is not the suffering part but the fact that the suffering replaces our relationship with Hashem and primarily the mitzvos. As Moshiach has to bring the Jewish people BACK to the Torah this is clearly the opposite of the truth."
ReplyDeleteOk, well, this sort of helps explain it, although I still can't reconcile everything I know about Judaism with the concept of Mashiach suffering for our sins. Christianity is so unpalatable to me precisely because of this notion of someone else suffering for the sins of others. It leads to other false Christian ideas like: everyone is born in sin; there is no redemption but through the suffering (and death) of JC; the Law is perfect but people are not, so JC had to come and fulfill the Law so that we no longer have to; etc, etc.
The way R' Kessin said, "they took the idea from us" makes it sound as though false Christian theological ideas are Jewish in origin.
Yes Anonymous @ 3.45 they are Jewish in origin, like a great deal of the xtian religion, and the reason they are false when used by the xtians is because the xtians applied them to their nonsense and twisted them to suit their needs. If ever there was a religion full of twisted truths it is the xtian religion.
ReplyDeleteCan't argue with you on that, Devorah. I do wish, however, that R' Kessin would be mindful that not only observant Jews are watching his videos. Things like this can be easily misconstrued and cause great confusion, imo.
ReplyDeletethe idea that a tzaddik has the power to atone for the sins of Am Yisrael is a completely jewish idea. this also applies to the kohen gadol on yom kippur who, through his service, atoned for the sins of Am Yisrael. it is also possible for a simple jew, or group of jews to do the same. the unique power of a tzaddik, or kohen, lies in the fact that they have a soul that includes the soul roots of the entire people. these are ideas that are fundamental to judaism and spread out in all the holy sefarim--which is why when someone wants a cut and dried source, it is not so simple to bring that one source that "proves everything." (it's like asking bring me a proof that emunah is fundamental to the jewish people)
ReplyDeletechristianity most certainly co-oped this idea. ironically, those who live among christians or who have been exposed to christian ideas in the course of their lives are the ones who have the most difficulty seeing the idea in judaism. it is not an issue with someone who has been immersed their entire lives in torah and knows the our holy sources, since it is all there and more.
and by the way, rabbi kessin has tremendous courage to dare to suggest that two thirds of the world will not be blowing up any time in the near or far future. we should argue that "yes yes the world should be destroyed!"?? G-d has many compassionate ways for His creation even while preserving the attribute of justice.
ReplyDeleteWhat's upsetting about the video and even the commenters is bringing in a 'religion' (avodah zorah) into this debate. Moshiach's coming had nothing to do with xtianity, islam, buddahism, etc., etc. We should not bring anything other than Jewish sources into the discussion and trying to bring the Jews back into the fold by doing teshuvah.
ReplyDeleteMoshiach is coming in its time and no matter what, he will come and then the world will know that there is only H'.
Another thing, every religion and even the mythologies are somehow and somewhat derived from Torah because Torah is the only Truth and every thing else is a mock version of Truth. Esav/Edom,Yishmael & Erev Rav are the mortal enemies of H' and His children,Yisrael! They understaand that with Moshiach's coming, it will be their downfall, so they are trying to stop his coming which, of course, cannot be done. The wicked will be undone and the righteous will endure. Every true Jewish neshama has a portion in the World to Come. H' knows who the righteous of the nations are and they will also have their portion in the World to Come. May we have our Redemption (Geulah Shleimah) in a blink of an eyes, b'rachamim for every emmeser Yid and the righteous.
Thank you Shifra, Devorah, and Anonymous at 8:21 and at 8:26,
ReplyDeleteYou all have a solid Torah foundation. Some others have holes in their learning, or do not understand correctly what they have learned. I wil watch the Rabbi Kessin lecture again today, but I am fairly certain Rabbi Kessin was reading directly from the Yalkut Shimoni as Shifra stated. Hillel from Kingsland, GA
I thought that Rabbi Kessin would have another video (#12) after this shiur to answer the question re the biblical answer for how Trump can win. Is Rabbi Kessin going to post something here on that
ReplyDeleteJane Rosen
Jane: as far as I understood, this was the final.
ReplyDelete