Moshiach is a Process: The Yerushalmi says דלמא רבי חייא רבא ורבי שמעון בן חלפתא הוו מהלכין בהדא בקעת ארבל בקריצתה וראו איילת השחר שבקע אורה. אמר רבי חייא רבה לר' שמעון בן חלפתא בי רבי כך היא גאולתן של ישראל בתחילה קימאה קימאה כל מה שהיא הולכת היא רבה והולכת, it happened that Rabbi Chiyah Rabbah and Rabbi Shimon Ben Chalafta were walking in the Arbel Valley at the break of the morning before the light of day. They witnessed the rising of the dawn as it spread out its light. Rabbi Chiyah Rabbah said to Rabbi Shimon Ben Chalafta, “Rabbi, thus is the Redemption of Israel - at the beginning it comes slowly, slowly and then afterwards it increases and grows.”
Rav Yodan says לפי שאין הגאולה של אומה זו באה בבת אחת אלא קימעא קימעא. ומהו מגדיל שהיא מתגדלת והולכת לפני ישראל. לפי שהן עכשיו שרויין בצרות גדולות ואם תבוא הגאולה בבת אחת אינן יכולין לסבול ישועה גדולה שהיא באה מתוך צרות גדולות. לכך הוא באה קימעא קימעא ומתגדלת והולכת, for this nation’s redemption does not happen all at one time, but rather bit by bit. So, what does the verse, "He gives great salvations," mean? That [the redemption] grows continuously before Israel. Since Israel currently endures great tribulations, should the Redemption arrive all at once, they would be unable to withstand the great salvation following directly after [a period of] great affliction. It, therefore, comes bit by bit and grows continuously.
The Zohar that says that before Moshiach there will be a secular Jewish state in the Land of Israel for seventy years and then a period of two years of the birth of Moshiach? This Independence Day (Wed) is 72 years to the state. Be"D... (I have heard two rabbis speak about this: Rav Anava and Rav Ron Chaya (French).
Rav Brody speaks about closing the btei knesset/midrash: the Ramchal says that before building of the Beit HaMikdash all the small windows will close before the opening of the great gate. The Shechinah is leaving all the holy places of Am Yisrael as she returns to her rightful place.
Anonymous, are you asking a question on the Zohar or saying a statement?
Regarding the Ramchal, here are words (Yalkut Yedi'os Ha'Emes volume 2, page 248): דע, כי הנה פתח גדול היה נפתח בראשונה על הארץ הקדושה, והוא השער שממנו היו ימאים כל הברכה וכל השלום בריוח ולא בצמצום; וכאשר גרמו העוונות והבית הקדוש חרב, אז נסגר השער הזה ונפתחו תחתיו חלונות קטנים. והאמת, כי חלונות האלה הם ממשלות קטנות מממשלת השער מאד, ועליהם נאמר (שיר השירים ב ט): "משגיח מן החלונות מציץ מן החרכים". והנה החלונות האלה, מאז נפתחו ניתן להם חוק וגבול לעמוד פתוחים כל ימי הגלות ולא ייסגרו, פן יחרב העולם רגע אחד, וכאשר תבוא גאולתנו במהרה בימינו, הנה ייפתח השער הסגור שגית והחלונות לא ייזכרו; והאמת, כי כבר כלו פעולתם והלכו להם, וכבר נאמר (סנהדרין ח א): "דבר אחד לדור ולא שגי דברים לדור", ועל כן בבוא ממשלת השער לא תעמוד ממשלת החלונות כלל, וסוד הענין (ברכות מח ב): "אין מלכות נוגעת בחברתה אפילו כמלא נימא". ונמצא, שכשיגיע זמן הגאולה יתחיל השער ויתעורר להיפתח, ובהתעוררו יזרח אור הגדול ויצא דרך החלונות עצמם, כי אץ מקום לממשלה אחרת בזמן ההוא. ומאותו היום והלאה יהיה השער הולך ונבנה בכל פרטיו, ומשפטי בניניו והחלונות יהיו הולכים ומסתלקים. ונמצא, שהשער יהיה נבנה, אבל למעלה, ולא נודע ממנו למטה עד תום ממשלת החלונות, כאשר ניתן להם בראשונה. והבן מאד, כי הדברים עצומים ומושרשים בעמקי החכמה. ועל כן האור יהיה הולך ומחשיך, כי החלונות נסתמים ואור השער לא נגלה. והנה בשעה אחת ישלימו להיסתם החלונות, ותתגלה מיד פתיחת השער. ונמצא, שאין בין זה לזה כלום אלא זה נכנס וזה יוצא, שאם לא כן באותו הרגע היה העולם הרב, אך עם כל זח כיון שכבר יגיעו החלונות לסתימה הזאת נראית פעולתם למטה, והיא עת חשיכה גדולה, והיא לא תעמוד חרבה, כי פתיחת השער תתחזק וישוב האור חזק מבראשונה. אמנם, שגעשה הענין הזה למעלה נראית פעולתו למסה כי לסי השפעת המאורות נעשות הפעולות בעולם. וכל אלה הדברים מובנים מאד ליודעי דרך החכמה.
The Zohar that says that before Moshiach there will be a secular Jewish state in the Land of Israel for seventy years and then a period of two years of the birth of Moshiach.
The unity government in Israel--Achdus produces great things--may be integral to this process. Before the mageifa, the idea of Netanyahu (give over) sitting together with Gantz (all or complete) and Peretz (Mashiach is a descendant of Peretz) was absurd. But if the ultimate purpose of the arrangement is to turn things over to Mashiach ... But will the Israeli Supreme Court--which would lose all power in an halachic state-derail things? Ed
Anonymous, where does the Zohar say that before Moshiach there will be a secular Jewish state in the Land of Israel for seventy years and then a period of two years of the birth of Moshiach?
The Tanach very clear affirms that Mashiach will be a descendant of King David. How Mashiach, the process, be a descendant? Whoever teaches that Mashiach is a process, not a person, that Rabbi is out of the framework of Judaism.
Where did he say that Moshiach is not a person? He's saying that Moshiach doesn't come overnight, it is a process. There is more to come, not just the virus. My understanding of what he said is nothing like what you have presented.
Anonymous at 11:45am The Rabbi is talking about chevlei Moshiach being a process, not the Moshiach himself. Just like gestation and labour before a baby is born.
Exactly, perhaps that should be another interpretation for "kol ha'omer davar b'shem omro mavi geulah l'olam"!
Re: R'Wallerstein's topic of chutzpah, how true, and i have a brainstorm for a fun way to reverse the chutzpah mindset in a huge way, but in these End Times its probably too late.
For now, here's a window into my recent chutzpah experience. On Erev Pesach i did a mitzva. So you'd think that would cause "mitzva gorreret mitzva", right? But instead, it led to many aveirot. Why? Because the people involved, acted with interruptive assumptions, after having intruded on =me= with phone calls despite themselves having earlier been unreachable. And this led to a frustrated eruption bursting out of me. To add insult to injury, due to breakdown of communications at their end, yet another person phoned after Pesach, interrupting my train of thought during typing, which led to yet further hassle, and further unwarranted chutzpah leading to my lashon horah to outside parties (due to the impossibility of getting thru to them). That's how livid they made me, and how desperate i became to get it off my chest.
And it was all because of them failing to provide means of communication such as email, as well as poor internal-communication at their end, as well as my not having Caller ID thru my phone svc. so i can respond to calls at my convenience awhile later.
Youth of today (and even oldsters) have reached a point mimicking fake-news socialists. I.E. for them to have to listen to an explanatory paragraph without interrupting, constitutes a boo-boo to their "precious" souls. After all, they're the elites! Even when they are instigators, they must be protected AT ALL COSTS from others' angst by macho men who interrupted me with false accusations, even during a time when R'Akiva's talmidim "lo nohagu kavod zeh lazeh". Except that kavod isn't what turns me on. All i ask for is MENUCHAT HANEFESH to be able to convey a point without interruptive false accusations!
Anyway, this mitzvah-gorreret-aveirah thing happens to me alot, due to people's unwarranted rashness. So i'm not accepting the glossings-over anymore. Everyone shmoozes about lashon horah, or talking in shul, or tzniut, or the internet, or money-worship, etc.etc. Which yes, are true.
But how many frum authorities FROM THE 1970S AND BEYOND have emphasized simple decency, even pointing out the Amish as a semi-example to follow? (I don't mean their trinity of course. But what would have been wrong if Jewish communities had all along just lived simply on farms such as in Vineland, NJ, and without much competition, rather support-systems? Granted, residents of Meah Shearim lead spartan lives, but for crying out loud, not everyone can handle that. I know someone whose health was affected in Meah Shearim in her formative years. But when you live as partners with the land, that fosters vibrant unity with the Creator and with creation even for those of us who are not by nature Gaon's. M.M.
Regarding the Zohar and seventy years of a secular state followed by two years of the birth of Moshiah, both Rav Alon Anava and Rav Ron Chaya have brought this Zohar in their classes. I don't think they cited a specific page. In any case, we have had seventy years of a secular state and on Tuesday two full years of a headless state, Be"D making way for the true leader...
About Moshiach being a process, imho it's a process and an event, just the same as pregnancy and the moment of giving birth which is an event, and then celebrated by another event, brit, maybe that will be chanukat beit hamikdash on the eighth day.
While i only comprehended a bit here and there, it seems to tie in with these: (1) "im en atem maaminim, re'u b'ori shezorai'ach", (2) reish lakish stating about the "ohr" moving out of its hiding place to heal tzadikim. (3) autistic Daniel stating about the imminent Nibiru next year. (4) ohr haganuz?? Note R'Anava's video on "ohr haganuz" mentions both that ohr haganuz is supposed to be one of rachamim & chesed, and that when Moshiach comes we're going to see many more colors. I'm thinking it might not be such a coincidence that there's hardly any magenta lighting (only glasses) readily available in this topsy-turvy world, since that's supposed to be most healing, perhaps even more soothing than green bankers lamps. M.M.
FB says it contains content that other people have reported as abusive - I have no idea what they’re talking about! Try copying the page link and posting on your timeline
Yup FB will no longer allow my site to be shared, I have lodged a complaint and asked them why this site does not match their ''community standards'' whatever that means.
Amazing lecture, thanks for posting. A much more 'centrist' perspective that emphasizes our strengths yet admits we still have to improve in order to reach the next level.
sc: please email me, I do not know which email address you are using now.
ReplyDeleteMoshiach is a Process:
ReplyDeleteThe Yerushalmi says דלמא רבי חייא רבא ורבי שמעון בן חלפתא הוו מהלכין בהדא בקעת ארבל בקריצתה וראו איילת השחר שבקע אורה. אמר רבי חייא רבה לר' שמעון בן חלפתא בי רבי כך היא גאולתן של ישראל בתחילה קימאה קימאה כל מה שהיא הולכת היא רבה והולכת, it happened that Rabbi Chiyah Rabbah and Rabbi Shimon Ben Chalafta were walking in the Arbel Valley at the break of the morning before the light of day. They witnessed the rising of the dawn as it spread out its light. Rabbi Chiyah Rabbah said to Rabbi Shimon Ben Chalafta, “Rabbi, thus is the Redemption of Israel - at the beginning it comes slowly, slowly and then afterwards it increases and grows.”
Rav Yodan says לפי שאין הגאולה של אומה זו באה בבת אחת אלא קימעא קימעא. ומהו מגדיל שהיא מתגדלת והולכת לפני ישראל. לפי שהן עכשיו שרויין בצרות גדולות ואם תבוא הגאולה בבת אחת אינן יכולין לסבול ישועה גדולה שהיא באה מתוך צרות גדולות. לכך הוא באה קימעא קימעא ומתגדלת והולכת, for this nation’s redemption does not happen all at one time, but rather bit by bit. So, what does the verse, "He gives great salvations," mean? That [the redemption] grows continuously before Israel. Since Israel currently endures great tribulations, should the Redemption arrive all at once, they would be unable to withstand the great salvation following directly after [a period of] great affliction. It, therefore, comes bit by bit and grows continuously.
The Zohar that says that before Moshiach there will be a secular Jewish state in the Land of Israel for seventy years and then a period of two years of the birth of Moshiach? This Independence Day (Wed) is 72 years to the state. Be"D...
ReplyDelete(I have heard two rabbis speak about this: Rav Anava and Rav Ron Chaya (French).
Rav Brody speaks about closing the btei knesset/midrash: the Ramchal says that before building of the Beit HaMikdash all the small windows will close before the opening of the great gate. The Shechinah is leaving all the holy places of Am Yisrael as she returns to her rightful place.
Amen!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, are you asking a question on the Zohar or saying a statement?
ReplyDeleteRegarding the Ramchal, here are words (Yalkut Yedi'os Ha'Emes volume 2, page 248):
דע, כי הנה פתח גדול היה נפתח בראשונה על הארץ הקדושה, והוא השער שממנו היו ימאים כל הברכה וכל השלום בריוח ולא בצמצום; וכאשר גרמו העוונות והבית הקדוש חרב, אז נסגר השער הזה ונפתחו תחתיו חלונות קטנים. והאמת, כי חלונות האלה הם ממשלות קטנות מממשלת השער מאד, ועליהם נאמר (שיר השירים ב ט): "משגיח מן החלונות מציץ מן החרכים". והנה החלונות האלה, מאז נפתחו ניתן להם חוק וגבול לעמוד פתוחים כל ימי הגלות ולא ייסגרו, פן יחרב העולם רגע אחד, וכאשר תבוא גאולתנו במהרה בימינו, הנה ייפתח השער הסגור שגית והחלונות לא ייזכרו; והאמת, כי כבר כלו פעולתם והלכו להם, וכבר נאמר (סנהדרין ח א): "דבר אחד לדור ולא שגי דברים לדור", ועל כן בבוא ממשלת השער לא תעמוד ממשלת החלונות כלל, וסוד הענין (ברכות מח ב): "אין מלכות נוגעת בחברתה אפילו כמלא נימא". ונמצא, שכשיגיע זמן הגאולה יתחיל השער ויתעורר להיפתח, ובהתעוררו יזרח אור הגדול ויצא דרך החלונות עצמם, כי אץ מקום לממשלה אחרת בזמן ההוא. ומאותו היום והלאה יהיה השער הולך ונבנה בכל פרטיו, ומשפטי בניניו והחלונות יהיו הולכים ומסתלקים. ונמצא, שהשער יהיה נבנה, אבל למעלה, ולא נודע ממנו למטה עד תום ממשלת החלונות, כאשר ניתן להם בראשונה. והבן מאד, כי הדברים עצומים ומושרשים בעמקי החכמה. ועל כן האור יהיה הולך ומחשיך, כי החלונות נסתמים ואור השער לא נגלה. והנה בשעה אחת ישלימו להיסתם החלונות, ותתגלה מיד פתיחת השער. ונמצא, שאין בין זה לזה כלום אלא זה נכנס וזה יוצא, שאם לא כן באותו הרגע היה העולם הרב, אך עם כל זח כיון שכבר יגיעו החלונות לסתימה הזאת נראית פעולתם למטה, והיא עת חשיכה גדולה, והיא לא תעמוד חרבה, כי פתיחת השער תתחזק וישוב האור חזק מבראשונה. אמנם, שגעשה הענין הזה למעלה נראית פעולתו למסה כי לסי השפעת המאורות נעשות הפעולות בעולם. וכל אלה הדברים מובנים מאד ליודעי דרך החכמה.
Sorry that was a typo.
ReplyDeleteThe Zohar that says that before Moshiach there will be a secular Jewish state in the Land of Israel for seventy years and then a period of two years of the birth of Moshiach.
The unity government in Israel--Achdus produces great things--may be integral to this process. Before the mageifa, the idea of Netanyahu (give over) sitting together with Gantz (all or complete) and Peretz (Mashiach is a descendant of Peretz) was absurd. But if the ultimate purpose of the arrangement is to turn things over to Mashiach ... But will the Israeli Supreme Court--which would
ReplyDeletelose all power in an halachic state-derail things? Ed
Anonymous, where does the Zohar say that before Moshiach there will be a secular Jewish state in the Land of Israel for seventy years and then a period of two years of the birth of Moshiach?
ReplyDeleteThe Tanach very clear affirms that Mashiach will be a descendant of King David. How Mashiach, the process, be a descendant? Whoever teaches that Mashiach is a process, not a person, that Rabbi is out of the framework of Judaism.
ReplyDeleteWhere did he say that Moshiach is not a person? He's saying that Moshiach doesn't come overnight, it is a process. There is more to come, not just the virus. My understanding of what he said is nothing like what you have presented.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 11:45am
ReplyDeleteThe Rabbi is talking about chevlei Moshiach being a process, not the Moshiach himself. Just like gestation and labour before a baby is born.
Thank you Anon for doing a better job of clarifying that :)
ReplyDeleteExactly, perhaps that should be another interpretation for "kol ha'omer davar b'shem omro mavi geulah l'olam"!
ReplyDeleteRe: R'Wallerstein's topic of chutzpah, how true, and i have a brainstorm for a fun way to reverse the chutzpah mindset in a huge way, but in these End Times its probably too late.
For now, here's a window into my recent chutzpah experience. On Erev Pesach i did a mitzva. So you'd think that would cause "mitzva gorreret mitzva", right? But instead, it led to many aveirot. Why? Because the people involved, acted with interruptive assumptions, after having intruded on =me= with phone calls despite themselves having earlier been unreachable. And this led to a frustrated eruption bursting out of me. To add insult to injury, due to breakdown of communications at their end, yet another person phoned after Pesach, interrupting my train of thought during typing, which led to yet further hassle, and further unwarranted chutzpah leading to my lashon horah to outside parties (due to the impossibility of getting thru to them). That's how livid they made me, and how desperate i became to get it off my chest.
And it was all because of them failing to provide means of communication such as email, as well as poor internal-communication at their end, as well as my not having Caller ID thru my phone svc. so i can respond to calls at my convenience awhile later.
Youth of today (and even oldsters) have reached a point mimicking fake-news socialists. I.E. for them to have to listen to an explanatory paragraph without interrupting, constitutes a boo-boo to their "precious" souls. After all, they're the elites! Even when they are instigators, they must be protected AT ALL COSTS from others' angst by macho men who interrupted me with false accusations, even during a time when R'Akiva's talmidim "lo nohagu kavod zeh lazeh". Except that kavod isn't what turns me on. All i ask for is MENUCHAT HANEFESH to be able to convey a point without interruptive false accusations!
Anyway, this mitzvah-gorreret-aveirah thing happens to me alot, due to people's unwarranted rashness. So i'm not accepting the glossings-over anymore. Everyone shmoozes about lashon horah, or talking in shul, or tzniut, or the internet, or money-worship, etc.etc. Which yes, are true.
But how many frum authorities FROM THE 1970S AND BEYOND have emphasized simple decency, even pointing out the Amish as a semi-example to follow? (I don't mean their trinity of course. But what would have been wrong if Jewish communities had all along just lived simply on farms such as in Vineland, NJ, and without much competition, rather support-systems? Granted, residents of Meah Shearim lead spartan lives, but for crying out loud, not everyone can handle that. I know someone whose health was affected in Meah Shearim in her formative years. But when you live as partners with the land, that fosters vibrant unity with the Creator and with creation even for those of us who are not by nature Gaon's.
M.M.
Video on Moshiach, by Rabbi Anava
ReplyDeletehttps://youtu.be/ELXWQPsnkQ8
It’s not ready yet Sharona - I’ll upload it soon when it’s available
ReplyDeleteRegarding the Zohar and seventy years of a secular state followed by two years of the birth of Moshiah, both Rav Alon Anava and Rav Ron Chaya have brought this Zohar in their classes. I don't think they cited a specific page. In any case, we have had seventy years of a secular state and on Tuesday two full years of a headless state, Be"D making way for the true leader...
ReplyDeleteAbout Moshiach being a process, imho it's a process and an event, just the same as pregnancy and the moment of giving birth which is an event, and then celebrated by another event, brit, maybe that will be chanukat beit hamikdash on the eighth day.
To RealNews quoting Ramchal:
ReplyDeleteWhile i only comprehended a bit here and there, it seems to tie in with these:
(1) "im en atem maaminim, re'u b'ori shezorai'ach",
(2) reish lakish stating about the "ohr" moving out of its hiding place to heal tzadikim.
(3) autistic Daniel stating about the imminent Nibiru next year.
(4) ohr haganuz?? Note R'Anava's video on "ohr haganuz" mentions both that ohr haganuz is supposed to be one of rachamim & chesed, and that when Moshiach comes we're going to see many more colors. I'm thinking it might not be such a coincidence that there's hardly any magenta lighting (only glasses) readily available in this topsy-turvy world, since that's supposed to be most healing, perhaps even more soothing than green bankers lamps.
M.M.
Q: I can't share this to facebook. Makes me sad.
ReplyDeleteFB says it contains content that other people have reported as abusive - I have no idea what they’re talking about! Try copying the page link and posting on your timeline
ReplyDeleteYup FB will no longer allow my site to be shared, I have lodged a complaint and asked them why this site does not match their ''community standards'' whatever that means.
ReplyDeleteAmazing lecture, thanks for posting. A much more 'centrist' perspective that emphasizes our strengths yet admits we still have to improve in order to reach the next level.
ReplyDeleteI think I know why I have been banned on FB. It's because of the coronavirus posts. They are very fussy about coronavirus and the things being said.
ReplyDelete